Gulfstream International Airlines

[wil]

I stand corrected. I was not aware of your policy with the students. I did not mean to sound like an a-hole. I do not agree with your company practices but please accept my apology and, welcome aboard. Cheers, Wil

 

[bobbysamd]

Gulfstream

I am a current Captain for Gulfstream and I am not ashamed in the least . . . . [T]he way the program works is that the guys do pay for 250 hours as a FO in the right seat and when their time is up, they can get hired at Gulfstream permanitly if they are hiring, or have an option of an interview at some other regional airlines. The FO's we hire here then upgrade to Captain when they get thier time and thier senority number comes up. This is where we get 95% of our Captains.

Good post. I mean it sincerely. I am staunchly against P-F-T or any other pay-for-job scheme, but your comments helped to offset the primarily one-sided P-F-T discussions we have on this board.

Just a couple of questions: How many Gulfstream P-F-Ters does the airline actually hire full-time after they fly off their 250? The impression gained is the majority are sent off to Pinnacle or others - which gives the impression that once you fly off your 250 Gulfstream is no longer interested in you. Of the number of P-F-Ters actually hired, how many actually upgrade to captain? Somehow, it would seem not many if Gulfstream still needs street captains.

Once again, thanks for posting.

 

[sejac]

I am glad to hear that people are actually starting to understand the way this program works as it seems there are alot of mysteries to it.

As in alot of small companies, there is alot of crisis management at Gulfstream. After 9-11, not to much hiring went on at all. There were a couple of rounds of hiring for FO's, however people still came for the FO program because there were many opportunities at Pinnacle. Now we have had alot of movement of Captain's elsewhere, so they are short FO's to upgrade. They began hiring FO's again at a high rate. They have just done 2 or 3 classes of 5-6 with more planned. The problem is that most of these FO's don't quite meet minimums for Captian and want more time in the airplane before they move to the left seat. Also, for various reason some of the FO's who are elligable have passed it up for one reason or the other. PSA also took some of our FO's who the company thought would upgrade but decided to leave. This is why they are in a position to hire off the street Captains. They did it several times before.

The bottom line now is that there are more people comming to this program now than ever before because there are such good chances of getting hired somewhere when you finish the 250. I understand why alot of people don't like this kind of program but it works for alot of people and it is definatly here to stay for the time being.

One more myth I would like to bust is the fact that these FO's just throw the flaps and gear all day and do nothing else. THIS IS NOT TRUE! We trade legs back and forth every day just as in any airline. Some captain's here actually let the FO's fly as many legs as they want because they know that their time might be limited at Gulfstream. Plus this airplane has no autopilot and it gets very tiring to fly all of the legs all day. I agree that you should flight instruct before you do this program. I instructed before I did it and still do ocassionally. However, by the time these FO's get between 100 and 200 hours in the airplane, there skills are very very good. Once again, there are a few that are exception to this. This program teaches the FO's the skills to be a 121 pilot plain and simple. They get training here that you just can't get as a flight instructor. Training that will really help make thier life MUCH easier at their next airline job. Once again, I do believe that flight instructing will help them before they come here with just plain flying skills as well and I would reccomend that to anyone before comming here.

I really appreciate people taking the time to read this thread and hopefully understand a little bit about what Guflstream is about. This is the first one I have seen where it has not been completely bashed.

 

[bobbysamd]

Gulfstream

I am glad to hear that people are actually starting to understand the way this program works as it seems there are alot of mysteries to it . . . . One more myth I would like to bust is the fact that these FO's just throw the flaps and gear all day and do nothing else. THIS IS NOT TRUE! We trade legs back and forth every day just as in any airline. Some captain's here actually let the FO's fly as many legs as they want because they know that their time might be limited at Gulfstream . . . . I really appreciate people taking the time to read this thread and hopefully understand a little bit about what Guflstream is about. This is the first one I have seen where it has not been completely bashed.

I will never support P-F-T, but it's good to receive input from all sides of the issue. Undoubtedly, there are plenty of forum members and guests who never post but who simply want information and opinions. There are anti-P-F-T factions and pro-P-F-T factions, plenty of opinion but little information. Your information undoubtedly will help people trying to learn more and makes for a balanced discussion.

I, for one, believe that friends don't let friends P-F-T, but I appreciate your comments and information. Thanks again.

 

[328dude]

Sejac stated that they are allowed to fly up to 120 hours a month.

If they are Part 121, did I miss something. I thought 100 was the the max under 121.

Still looking. Excuse my ignorance for lack of regs if you can do this.

 

[jppt2000]

I will never support P-F-T, but it's good to receive input from all sides of the issue. Undoubtedly, there are plenty of forum members and guests who never post but who simply want information and opinions. There are anti-P-F-T factions and pro-P-F-T factions, plenty of opinion but little information. Your information undoubtedly will help people trying to learn more and makes for a balanced discussion.

I, for one, believe that friends don't let friends P-F-T, but I appreciate your comments and information. Thanks again.

I'm glad BoobysamD is mellowing! I guess the exchange in the TAB express thread has softened his stance.

BoobyD or should I say, (pollyanna), when you played Monopoly as a kid, did your folks stop the game when someone got ahead and started to win?
It seems you want everyone to play the same way, noone taking risks, everything guaranteed.

 

[bobbysamd]

P F T

I'm glad BoobysamD is mellowing! I guess the exchange in the TAB express thread has softened his stance.

Back with the name-calling? Reread my comments. No, my stance has not softened about P-F-T. But there is always a need for information, which is what this poster has provided.

It seems you want everyone to play the same way . . . .

It's called rules and fairness. It's why we have the Bill of Rights. 14th Amendment. Brown v. Board of Education. Everyone deserves a fair chance, regardless of age, sex or whatever. People have the right to make choices, good or bad, and have to live with their choices, good and bad. One might not agree with a particular choice, such as P-F-T, and speak against it, but I, for one, will defend one's right to make a choice, good or bad.

I'm not answering any more of your posts.

 

[sejac]

We have an exemption under our 121 regs because we fly a 19 seet airplane that we can fly 120 hrs. in a month, 1200 in a year, and 34 in a 7 day period. I believe all carriers who fly 19 seet airplanes or less can file for this exemption. Thats why we can fly 120 hrs. in a month and another reason that attracts some people here, they can get thier time FAST.

 

[NoBathroom]

Actually, it is because passenger airplanes of 30 seats or less with a payload less than a certain amount (I can't remember the exact weight) fall under Part 135 regs of 120 hours per month/1200 hours per year, as well as the 34 hours in 7 days rule. This is why the Brasilia's also fall under that hour rule.

 

[John_W_Thompson]

Gulfstream Int'l hiring

Where would I find the contact info for hiring? Also, I am seriously considering getting on there to build turbine PIC. I welcome all advice from current / former employees privately or on this thread. I am interested in the street Cap't position, and am also wondering where I can live.

THANKS!

 

[Luckydude!]

Smart people are born...not made!

While many here are complaining about the "race to the bottom" due to decreasing pay and benefits there already exists a bottom-of-the-barrell element: captains who inject their personal politics into the jumpseat. What a shameful and unprofessional thing! The jumpseat is about pilots going to and from work. To read that a captain wishes to punish a pilot simply for working for a company that exploits other pilots is reprehensible. I don't know who this guy works for but I'm sure he wouldn't be happy if he was trying to jumpseat someday and the captain said, "your airline wouldn't hire my cousin so you're not welcome on my jumpseat". Arbitrary and stupid. Have I sufficiently expressed my displeasure? I lived through a merger not long ago where individual anger on both sides spilled over onto the jumpseat and ordinary working pilots suffered. Let's keep politics out of the jumpseat!

Thank you very much for those words,I apreciate fellow pilot and the beauty of flying around the world for free.
I dont care if you are minority,republican,democrat,jewis,catholic,or what ever! Be polite in the counter, on my cockpit and specially to my FO and you will get a ride and first class treatment!

For those who need a job, and they get an offer from Gulfstream,I will take no doubt about it!Specially PIC and a minimun of 30$+/h Medical,Jumpseat etc.

Easy routes,easy plane, probably u will get bored before anythig else, beside for those of you that are singles,florida it's full of nude beaches and hot chicks everywhere!

 

[Luckydude!]

Calm down!

I shouldn't get into this but since smokey is an idiot...

Attending Flight Safety and paying for the training (which has no direct connection to the company) is 180 degrees opposite of a company that sells 250 hours in the right seat. I myself refused to PFT. But, I hold no grudge against those who did. I could be up the list 500 numbers had I PFT'D.

I know what a scab is and what a right seat renter is. For the purpose of this topic I am lumping them together.
Cheers, Wil

You should'n get mad with the PFT guy, but with the actually company.
Im shure that if your dad where rich, you would've done the same.

 

[RompXS4D]

Two or three of the people I know today that actually did the PFT, I hate to say it are a lot better off than I am currently. Been with there airline/s for going on five years. Early 2000 purchases. I graduate in early 2001 refuse to pay for training due to my dis-respect for it, (those people still may screw you on the picket line someday, PFT's)

Anyway point is it's now mid 2004 and I just got my first GDed commuter airline job offer.

 

[stuart716]

are you actually trying to say that people that pft are scabs. do you really think that only people that pft are the ones to cross a picket line.

 

[RompXS4D]

No I was referring to the one's that I know. They would be the first in line to screw you, me, and everyone else. Only speculatory though I just hope that they have seen it better.

 

[John_W_Thompson]

Need sum factx

Who do I contact @ GSI about the street Capt. position? I want to call them tomorrow.

What do crashpads go for in EYW?

Anyone use Cape Air to get to APF? Are they too full to commute on?

Thank you very much -

john

 

[T-Gates]

Those people still may screw you on the picket line someday, PFT's

PFT was near non-existant in the 1980's, yet Coninental, United, and Eastern managed to find a combined 4,000+ people to cross thier picket lines... So where do you justify that a PFT'er is more likely to cross than someone who has not PFT'ed? Comair had a high amount of PFT pilots in thier workforce during thier 90-day 2001 strike and the only 2 pilots that crossed were retired captains....I'd be just as worried about the non-PFT'er as much as the PFT'er... I see no difference. Just because you PFT doesn't mean you are bred to cross a picket line.

Xjet has a fair amount of guys who PFT'ed....most of them seem very adimant about holding the line and possibly going on strike to settle thier new contract, I have also heard such talk from ASA pilots (Another former PFT carrier), nearing the same point....

So.... Where is your precident that a PFT pilot is more likely to scab? They've had alot of chances....

 

[John_W_Thompson]

Commuting

If one were to get hired at GIA, which cities would be good choices in terms of commutability on GIA? Looks like MIA and TPA. Any input?

 

[dondk]

Well 350,

The reason why is that in the past there was little education on how to jumpseat. This resulted in pissing several major carriers off and we were at risk of losing the agreements. So steps were taken to make sure these problems were never to happen again. The js education was not very consistent due to the fact that we kept losing JS coordinators. We eliminated the jumpseat for GIA "probationaries" as we called them and kept the permanent seniority pilots on the jumpseat. Hopefully by the time they became permanent they would have been a little more educated on how to jumpseat.

That is why it was done. They could still JS on GIA flights but no other.

Now this makes sense... At Pinnacle we have gotten more than a few GIA people and it seems like they are generally clueless on how to J/S.

I know a few of them have "stirred" the pot in some of the NWA florida stations by the bold way they go about Jumpseating (they deserve it type of attitude).. It has kept the J/S coordinator a bit more busier than he would like to be. I personally ran into one recently (not even off OE yet).. while not in uniform or drinking a beer in First class.. he did make sure he took First Class without asking.... Had to see the look on the F/A's faces.. it was priceless...

Some of those NWA F/A's don't even allow thier own people to sit in First (even if it is empty).

 

[s3jetman]

first sorry about spelling and grammer

I am glad to see an educational discussion on this board about PFT.

As I read all the aviation discussions and agruments on this board I feel a little upset. I see more negative comments toward each other and our profession than positive. March 05, 2002 was my last flight. My medical was pulled after an accident on March 8 2002. Working at a desk and pushing paper around is not my idea of a dream job. As I set here on the ground, thanks to those lovely people in OKC, I can only dream of the days when I can return to the sky. To sit here and listen to people argue about all that is wrong or bad in aviation, it is hard to take. I think every pilot in this industry needs to take a step back and be thankful for what he/she has, no matter how little it may be. Take in those who are just begining and lead them in the wright dircrection, not through hate or discuss, but with support and encougement. Be glad you get to wake up everyday and walk out your door knowing you soon will be soaring through the clouds. Aviation brings another rare attribute with it. That of brotherhood. As pilots we must all stick together and support each other. I have two older brothers and yes we fought, but I be da** if one of them needs me I will be there for him. I am just experssing some feelings I have inside because I have not been able to fly for 29 months now and it is really hard to see so many who have the opprotunity to be so negative about it. Soon the FAA, I hope, will return my medical and I will again share the skies with all of you. In my return I hope I find some kindness and feeling of graditude in the aviation community. Tust me you do not understand what you have untill it is taken away.

Those who have tasted flight
Walk the earth with our eyes turned skyward
For It is there we have been
And It is there we long to return