Gulfstream Announcement

[ozpilot]

Again, a clean sheet design is not a derivative of anything.

Edit: I guess the contract wording was changed from "or derivative aircraft" to successor aircraft, my bad.

Under the 2005 agreement you would have been correct. NJI was restricted to derivatives of the G4 and G5.

Under the 2007 agreement it was changed to restricting NJA to derivatives of the G150 and G200.

Something else that got lost in the fine print ...

 

[bailey3083]

http://www.gulfstream.com/gulfstreamg650/

 

[gutshotdraw]

Okay, so I was wrong about two things: customer deliveries in 2012, not 2010. My bad. I guess that fly-by-wire stuff will slow down certification a little bit. And the price will be NORTH of $50 million, not south. The falling dollar is a beotch.

And if you think this was a "clean-sheet" design, you've been reading too many press releases. The vast majority of the systems, with the exception of the FBW, will be enhancements of proven Gulfstream systems. I expect this type-rating course for anyone with Gulfstream experience to be even more of a snore than the V was.

 

[Partyfoul]

I don't think it will be a FBW issue for certification. They have been working on it for 5 years and flying it on a GV testbed for a year. They have to build it first, have production conforming prototypes then flight test. Not a quick process. All talk in SAV is they are shooting for the G5 type to cover the 650 with differences training. Planeview, EVS, and SV-PFD are all the same as the newer 550's coming off the line.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I hope so but that's what they thought about the V. The conspiracy theorist in me says the same people that lobbied the FAA to demand a separate type for the V versus the IV will do the same here. Money to be made if you know what I mean...

 

[CaveoFalco]

Under the 2005 agreement you would have been correct. NJI was restricted to derivatives of the G4 and G5.

Under the 2007 agreement it was changed to restricting NJA to derivatives of the G150 and G200.

Something else that got lost in the fine print ...

Nothing changed between the 2005 and the 2007 agreement. Section 1 remains intact as it was without change. The LOA that you referenced is LOA 01-001 signed Oct 8 2005 and that is still intact as well.

 

[RTRHD]

I hope so but that's what they thought about the V. The conspiracy theorist in me says the same people that lobbied the FAA to demand a separate type for the V versus the IV will do the same here. Money to be made if you know what I mean...

I think it will be the same type. They are just doing the same thing as falcon did with the 50 and 900. There is a considerable amount of differences between those two. No idea what happened on the G IV and V.

 

[RTRHD]

Nothing changed between the 2005 and the 2007 agreement. Section 1 remains intact as it was without change. The LOA that you referenced is LOA 01-001 signed Oct 8 2005 and that is still intact as well.

It does not matter anyway. It is the same type certificate.

 

[flyjetspeed]

It does not matter anyway. It is the same type certificate.

If we do order 10 of them I wonder if they'll be thrown in with the V, 550 and 450 or be the start of a separate fleet?

 

[RTRHD]

If we do order 10 of them I wonder if they'll be thrown in with the V, 550 and 450 or be the start of a separate fleet?

We won't even have to be worried about it till 2012. I want those bugs way worked out before I see Fly by wire. You have enough 450 time to agree with that.

 

[flyjetspeed]

Finest airplane I've ever flown between service centers.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I think it will be the same type. They are just doing the same thing as falcon did with the 50 and 900. There is a considerable amount of differences between those two. No idea what happened on the G IV and V.

The Falcon 50, 50 EX, 900, 900EX, and 900Easy all have the same type rating but have WAY more differences between them than the IV and the V do. But they were initially certified by JAA. The Gulfstream was initially certified by FAA. As we know, most government agencies are corrupt and subject to political influence. Dassault wanted one type rating and so..... Certain other entities in the U.S. wanted separate types for the IV and the V and so... Follow the money. If the same influences are successful this time around, expect a separate type. I hate to be so cynical but one look around the American political landscape these days gives you the reason why.

 

[RTRHD]

The Falcon 50, 50 EX, 900, 900EX, and 900Easy all have the same type rating but have WAY more differences between them than the IV and the V do. But they were initially certified by JAA. The Gulfstream was initially certified by FAA. As we know, most government agencies are corrupt and subject to political influence. Dassault wanted one type rating and so..... Certain other entities in the U.S. wanted separate types for the IV and the V and so... Follow the money. If the same influences are successful this time around, expect a separate type. I hate to be so cynical but one look around the American political landscape these days gives you the reason why.

Agree with all. But the 900ez is a separate type. Because of the difficulty in going from an ez back to a 50.

 

[RJ Bum]

I doubt FBW will be a problem. Remember Gulfstream is a General Dynamics company and they were pioneers of FBW when they rolled out the F-16 over 30 years ago. Yes I know apples and oranges, but there is no other company with more experience with FBW design than GD.

 

[414Flyer]

I doubt FBW will be a problem. Remember Gulfstream is a General Dynamics company and they were pioneers of FBW when they rolled out the F-16 over 30 years ago. Yes I know apples and oranges, but there is no other company with more experience with FBW design than GD.

You mean the F-111 about 43 years ago

 

[Whale Rider]

NJI isn't the only company getting a fleet of G650's. There is another. Stay tuned.............

 

[cush]

Let me guess.... XOjet?

 

[cush]

Here we go again. Arguing with the Cessna boys.

That's "Captain" Cessna boy to you. I'll take my coffee black.

 

[Diesel]

Is XO jet going to be around by 2012?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Is XO jet going to be around by 2012?

they wont be if they try and go head to head with NetJets "International" division...


bwahaa!

 

[Diesel]

With the mileage of the 650 going east you're bound to run into some country on the other side of the pond.

Lets just hope they can figure out the difference between azores and shannon.

 

[Waldom]

I doubt FBW will be a problem.

Like brake-by-wire and steer-by-wire in the original G-IV? Gulfstream threw a bunch of A.S.C.s at the problems and then gave up on brake-by-wire with the SP version.

 

[RTRHD]

That's "Captain" Cessna boy to you. I'll take my coffee black.

Thats Captain RTRHD to you. You want me to bring you something back from VTBD. :smash:

 

[cush]

Sorry you have to go that far...to make less money. Besides, I don't have all my current vaccinations, so i'm not sure I want what your bringing back!

 

[CE750Driver]

Thats Captain RTRHD to you. You want me to bring you something back from VTBD. :smash:

OHHHHHH, your such a stud. VTBD? Can I get your autograph next time we run into each other? Then, maybe you could grace me with a few stories of exotic places and exotic women!:blush:

 

[Waldom]

OHHHHHH, your such a stud. VTBD? Can I get your autograph next time we run into each other? Then, maybe you could grace me with a few stories of exotic places and exotic women!:blush:

You can get those in Houston.

 

[RTRHD]

OHHHHHH, your such a stud. VTBD? Can I get your autograph next time we run into each other? Then, maybe you could grace me with a few stories of exotic places and exotic women!:blush:

Your to easy. I know your better than I am. You got 200 one me. I will explain 550 +200= 750 (your screen name).

 

[RTRHD]

You can get those in Houston.

I am sure he will want your autograph also. You have been more places then I have.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

OHHHHHH, your such a stud. VTBD? Can I get your autograph next time we run into each other? Then, maybe you could grace me with a few stories of exotic places and exotic women!:blush:

Actually, the stud you're talking about would be me. Ive dropped 42 pds and look like a teenager these days.

RTHD only lost 25 and he still dips tobacco.

But we both travel to those "exotic" places....

 

[cush]

RTHD only lost 25 and he still dips tobacco.

I guess then he can't be all bad.