Gulfstream Academy...

[350DRIVER]

or- > "assumptions" with a p?

I'm not exactly sure where you get the term "given" from. GIA grads earned these jobs through hard work and study. Most of them put there entire lives on the line to give it a shot. Also, Pinnicle prefers GIA grads because they have a 97% pass rate in airline training as opposed to street hires which have a pass rate of 73%.

Once again you seem to be nieve to the fact on why you are only given a select few choices of regionals to go to. I would almost bet any amount of money that GIA pays these folks to even grant you the interview let alone the job since it does wonders to be able to help with the Gulf cola that they make you guys drink. Pinnacle does not prefer GIA grads, that is pretty much complete BS and you know it... Management forced this upon the pilot group, wait until you see how little if any respect your fellow pilots will show you once you hit the line. You are in for one he!! of a rude awakening. Street hires are the NORM nieve one with most ALL airlines ( the guys who earned what they got). That fact has got to pi$$ you off beyond belief since ExpressJet, Skywest, AE, etc, etc, would laugh you right out the door if you tried to submit a resume to them and attempted to sell them on your 250 hours of 1900 SIC time...

Am I going to be less respected for dressing up my resume? I think not. My fellow CFI's all hope to do the program soon and want the experiance very badly. Just because I am doing the first officer program doesn't mean my time as a CFI just disappeared. It doesn't make me a low time, unexperianced pilot. In fact I have spent more time instructing than most CFI's did before 9/11. And if I wasn't respected in the industry, then why to corporate pilots call me on a regular basis to fly with them? Other people I fly with know what I am doing and they don't judge my ability to operate an aircraft because I got an education loan. Most of those people are Senior Captains with majors or people with more hours and experiance than all the people on this thread combined. On a final note, I am content with my decision to attend GIA. I do not need your respect, nor have I requested it from someone who judges integrity based on their opinion of how one builds time.

You cannot even obtain a single bit of respect on a public aviation message board and you think it will get any better? Boy you surely are in for many surprises when you hit the line at Pinnacle. You have no experience with the airlines, with management, training pilots, etc, etc, so I shall not waste my time trying to justify why no one is going to show you any respect whatsoever- most can clearly see why on this board who are in there right mind.. My opinion? I could care less but it should bother you just a tad that most all these airline guys on this board pretty much laugh when you make a post and would not even give you the time of day let alone any respect, I would hope you wouldn't listen to me but listen to the majority who agree with most of what I have said..

Give me a break. There are no autopilots in these aircraft. The SIC flys every other leg. Normal 121 stuff, you know that as well as anyone else. When I am in that right seat I am bound by all the rules and regulations of the SIC. I must be able to cover the duties and responsibilities of the SIC and act as PIC if necessary. This is a serious undertaking for anyone and GIA is even more serious about it.

What a joke, you acting as PIC - God help us, I just feel bad for the poor guy who is forced to babysit you on a three day trip... I would take the Greyhound before I ever stepped foot on one of your flights for the obvious safety risks and concerns. If only the American flying public knew they had ONE qualified guy in the left seat and a 400 hour seat renter in the right seat I surely think the loads would ne rather poor. Serious undertaking? LOL That is probably one of the funniest things I have read to date on this program. You present them with a blank check and you are worried about all the hard work you gotta put in to get line qualified- LOL

Just wait a few months, things are changing. Geez, I wish I could tell you whats going on.

jee, a place run by scabs... Hmm I could only imagine what is next. (much sarcasm intended)

GIA holds there pilots to the highest standard and expects their F/O's to be as competent as any other.

Right !! That is why you are paid $8.00/hr to sit in the seat you rented out.. I could not even imagine looking at myself in the mirror or others if I had to have done this, I would have changed careers. $8.00/hr to be held to such high standards and to be as competent as all others.... R I G H T

Perhaps "given" is not the best choice of words, but these are the exact words live and direct from the Gulfstream Academy website:

Bobby you cannot put lipstick on a pig and call it very pretty, it really does not work. You present a blank check to them and you think these guys are going to be washed out? Basic business 101.. I have heard of guys getting 2, 3, and 4 chances.. You get that many at an airline where they are paying you while in training and covering ALL training costs? Absolutely not- One shot deal...

One question I would ask is are P-F-T grads being hired directly from P-F-T into the B717 jobs or must they stop at some regional along the way? I realize that schools of all kinds engage in deceptive hype to sell their course.

AirTran requires 2500 TT or somewhere in that ballpark with 500 hours prior 121 time so I highly doubt anyone with 500TT was picked up right out of the GIA program. I have heard that some of the street captains that GIA hired are now at Citrus (AirTran) so that is strictly used an another ploy and deceptive tactic.

Also, how much energy does Gulfstream expend toward placing its grads? I feel I'm asking a fair question. Some schools that promise interviews do nothing after the first interview on the grounds that they fulfilled their obligations by lining up someone for the one interview. And - not referencing any place specifically - how does one know that interview was conducted in good faith? There is a signficant expenditure of money, not to mention signficant debt and signficant hopes, riding on that interview. An operator such as Gulfstream seemingly has a moral obligation to do everything possible to place its grads.

GIA or Pinnacle, I would assume not much.. Pinnacle is probably paid a portion of the $18,000+ to take these guys. Bobby they really have very few options if one and two fail.


It is very fortunate that the majority of guys come up the ranks the hard way through some blood, sweat, and tears, and due to these reasons most are all respected. These young and nieve guys like Russian are in for a big big surprise if they truly think that anyone is going to show them much respect... It is nothing more than common sense.


Good luck to you, better you than I ..


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[bobbysamd]

Russian's P-F-T

While I do not agree with your P-F-T approach and some of your reasoning, I appreciate your answers. I also like how you encourage your students to get their CFIs. Your students should thank you for injecting realism into their aspirations and watering-down any Gulfstream Kool-Aid, which, I would still submit, flows like water. Or, for that matter, TAB cola.

I still think your multi time in the Starship and Citation would trump any lightness therein, and I still feel that you had no need to P-F-T.

Thanks for your answers. But, I still oppose P-F-T - for anyone - and especially those trying to cut in line.

 

[de727ups]

Silly claim

"street captains that GIA hired are now at Citrus (AirTran) so that is strictly used an another ploy and deceptive tactic."

About the dumbest thing I've ever heard....Gulfstream saying they place guys in a 717 cause some of their Capts got hired at AirTran. By the same logic, every flight school that an AirTran new hire ever attended could claim they place pilots in a 717...it's silly.

 

[The_Russian]

Yep

I agree. I don't think they should say that either.

 

[English]

I thought AirTran required 500 hours of part 121 PIC turbine, not plain ole vanilla part 121 time?

 

[Zekeflyer]

O.K. I get it. P-F-T...bad for your career.
But I again, I am 25 yrs old. is that old to start pursuing my airline dream? it seems like a lot of F/Os are 24 when they start. I am 25 and only about to get a private. I will probably get both an instrument and commercial rating just after I turn 26. I figure I will be thirty by the time I have built up sufficinet time to qualify to get into the airlines 1500+ hrs.
Question 1; is 25yrs old pre-private too old?
Question 2; if after all this, One actually makes it to the national Airlines, and you get laid off there after about 8yrs on the job, is it true that you have to start at the bottom of the pay scale if you take a job with another airline? All that experience you've built up counts for nothing? Is this true? I remember reading that somewhere but I am not sure. Could some one shed some light on this?

 

[de727ups]

No, 25 is not too old...especially since you have a degree. I had a friend who started in his late 30's and works at a major now.

Yes, if you leave one airline for another, you lose all your seniority. That's just the way this business works. You would start out at the bottom as an F/O, even if you were a Capt before.

I got hired at UPS in a class ahead of an ex-Braniff II Capt. I am a few numbers senior to him even though he had 727 Capt experience and I had never flown a jet.

In your current job, if you left after 8 years and went to another company, would you start on the 8 year pay scale at the new company?

 

[Zekeflyer]

Leaving an old post

In engineering, Leaving a job for another usually brings an uplift in pay. Yes you would pick up right where you left off and more often than not, you experience a salary increase as a result. This is the way things work in most "normal", non-seniority, merit based jobs.
That's shocking.

 

[DHPFLYN]

Hey I heard that GIA will get you a job right out of training is that true??? hA HA HA HA HA HA

PLEASE STOP THE MADNESS

 

[bobbysamd]

Aviation career pursuit

O.K. I get it. P-F-T...bad for your career.

At least some of us feel it is. A case can be made for P-F-T - I did during another argument, for argument's sake only - but, in my $0.02 opinion, the cons, potential detriment, what I feel is uncertainty after you finish P-F-T, and how your peers will react to you as a P-F-Ter outstrip by far any benefits. Not to mention the number that buying a job does to your psyche.

But I again, I am 25 yrs old. is that old to start pursuing my airline dream? it seems like a lot of F/Os are 24 when they start. I am 25 and only about to get a private. I will probably get both an instrument and commercial rating just after I turn 26. I figure I will be thirty by the time I have built up sufficinet time to qualify to get into the airlines 1500+ hrs.

I started flying when I was 31 and decided to pursue the career at age 36. I got jobs and had airline interviews; whether I was brought in to interview in good faith or to check off an ADEA and EEOC square is up for (educated) conjecture. My father always told me I should have started ten years earlier and he was right. So, the answer is "no," 25 is not too old to start the career.

Question 1; is 25yrs old pre-private too old?

See comment above.

Question 2; if after all this, One actually makes it to the national Airlines, and you get laid off there after about 8yrs on the job, is it true that you have to start at the bottom of the pay scale if you take a job with another airline?

Yes. You generally have to resign your seniority if you go to another airline. But, not always. It depends on the airline.

All that experience you've built up counts for nothing? Is this true?

Absolutely not. Your flight time and pilot ratings are not perishable. Currency is perishable, as is a CFI certificate. But, you can always get both back.

Hope that helps some more. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.