Gulfstream Academy...

[The_Russian]

I'm not sure how many times I am going to have to post this:

You are not guaranteed a position with any airline upon completion of the First Officer Program at GIA.

And I happen to know that CFI personally. He didn't get hired because he couldn't answer basic aeronautical questions in the interveiw that all the others could. There are not always good eggs in the basket.

And when it comes to money I can name, on more fingers than I have, CFI's that are 90,000 dollars in debt after FSI and cannot get any job flying. That includes instructor positions.

Lucky, it is impossible to be at GIA with 100 hrs total time. Also, the only time you can build at an FBO for the same price is in a single engine (152, 172, pa/28, AA5). It is wiser for me to invest my money into an aircraft that is more powerful and complex. I would have spent the same amount at Ari-Ben in Ft. Pierce FL to get the same amount of time in the Dutchess. Instead I'm getting BE1900 121 time.

 

[350DRIVER]

You are not guaranteed a position with any airline upon completion of the First Officer Program at GIA.

Honesty is good as long as it is not flawed, the above statement is just a tad deceptive and not overly completely true. I am a tad surprised that you would be saying this knowing that a select "few" money agreements are in place to take you guys, Pinnacle just to name one.. 90% of the 220 grads of the program were "given" jobs according to GIA'a marketing department upon completion of the first officer program. They also continue on to emphasize the "employment opportunities with GIA and its code share partners.

. . . if he is taken immediately, if at all.

Bobby, most are picked up by Pinnacle , this is pretty much a fact upon completion of the program. Now should Pinnacle go sour then this could be a problem since they do not have the luxury option of going to any other place at 500TT or so, the 250 hours of 1900 time really mean much at all at this point. This is problem, most are going on a hope and a prayer that Pinnacle continues to grow and hire these grads.... The games do end once they hit the line..

And when it comes to money I can name, on more fingers than I have, CFI's that are 90,000 dollars in debt after FSI and cannot get any job flying. That includes instructor positions.

Atleast they are "respected" by others in the industry, something that you will not be able to obtain. I have yet to meet others who had anything good to say about you guys and trust me nieve one that once you get up in the ranks it will only get much worse.

Lucky, it is impossible to be at GIA with 100 hrs total time. Also, the only time you can build at an FBO for the same price is in a single engine (152, 172, pa/28, AA5). It is wiser for me to invest my money into an aircraft that is more powerful and complex. I would have spent the same amount at Ari-Ben in Ft. Pierce FL to get the same amount of time in the Dutchess. Instead I'm getting BE1900 121 time.

"Invest", now that is a somewhat "comical" word to use there I must say myself, you have "rented" a seat out to play with the radios and the gear. You sure better hope that GIA keeps you after you are done with the 250 hours or Pinnacle picks ya up because you have pretty much "ZERO" other options out there. You are doing nothing more that whoring out and allowing the ex- CO scabs put a dummy in the right seat and avoid having to "HIRE" a "qualified" guy as a first officer. $8.00/hr to be a first officer in a 1900, that says it right there...

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[T-Gates]

The Russian:

You aren't debating anything new. You are just fanning the flames over PFT. Are you looking for 350, or Bobby to just throw down and say "F#$# It!!" "I love PFT!!!"??? In fact all you are doing is making them hate PFT more!

I did the GIA thing, and spent about 2 years of my life debating the Pros/Cons of PFT with all theese Gentlemen. Most if always they have been very civilized. You serve no purpouse but to re-ignite the eternal flame war that is PFT. You are doing a great disservice to all of the rest of us PFT'ers by continuing to piss people off by being so **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** proud and vocal.

I probaly know you, and you probaly know me. Do me a favor and let it rest.

 

[CFI'er]

OK, we bite the bait. What airline are you presently working for as a pilot?

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-Ter

Who? Me?

Thanks for the tone of your comments above. And, you are correct, I will not ever change my feelings about P-F-T; in fact, they have not changed in fourteen years, Russian's stiff retorts notwithstanding.

Having said all that, are you willing to share why you are not working at an airline as a pilot?

 

[bobbysamd]

Freight flying

Well I currently do work as a pilot. I was at GIA, then Pinnacle, (Long Story why I no longer work there) now I am flying freight in a Shorts 360.

Where on my profile does it say I am unemployed??

Good point.

Somehow, in my $0.02 opinion, I think you're better off flying Shorts freight than working for Pinnacle. Nothing wrong with that. You'll better off in the long run. Glad that it worked out for you.

 

[The_Russian]

Assumtions?

90% of the 220 grads of the program were "given" jobs according to GIA'a marketing department upon completion of the first officer program.

I'm not exactly sure where you get the term "given" from. GIA grads earned these jobs through hard work and study. Most of them put there entire lives on the line to give it a shot. Also, Pinnicle prefers GIA grads because they have a 97% pass rate in airline training as opposed to street hires which have a pass rate of 73%.

Atleast they are "respected" by others in the industry, something that you will not be able to obtain.

Am I going to be less respected for dressing up my resume? I think not. My fellow CFI's all hope to do the program soon and want the experiance very badly. Just because I am doing the first officer program doesn't mean my time as a CFI just disappeared. It doesn't make me a low time, unexperianced pilot. In fact I have spent more time instructing than most CFI's did before 9/11. And if I wasn't respected in the industry, then why to corporate pilots call me on a regular basis to fly with them? Other people I fly with know what I am doing and they don't judge my ability to operate an aircraft because I got an education loan. Most of those people are Senior Captains with majors or people with more hours and experiance than all the people on this thread combined. On a final note, I am content with my decision to attend GIA. I do not need your respect, nor have I requested it from someone who judges integrity based on their opinion of how one builds time.

"Invest", now that is a somewhat "comical" word to use there I must say myself, you have "rented" a seat out to play with the radios and the gear.

Give me a break. There are no autopilots in these aircraft. The SIC flys every other leg. Normal 121 stuff, you know that as well as anyone else. When I am in that right seat I am bound by all the rules and regulations of the SIC. I must be able to cover the duties and responsibilities of the SIC and act as PIC if necessary. This is a serious undertaking for anyone and GIA is even more serious about it.

You sure better hope that GIA keeps you after you are done with the 250 hours or Pinnacle picks ya up because you have pretty much "ZERO" other options out there.

Just wait a few months, things are changing. Geez, I wish I could tell you whats going on.

You are doing nothing more that whoring out and allowing the ex- CO scabs put a dummy in the right seat and avoid having to "HIRE" a "qualified" guy as a first officer.

GIA holds there pilots to the highest standard and expects their F/O's to be as competent as any other.

 

[bobbysamd]

Begging the P-F-T question

90% of the 220 grads of the program were "given" jobs according to GIA'a marketing department upon completion of the first officer program.

I'm not exactly sure where you get the term "given" from. GIA grads earned these jobs through hard work and study. Most of them put there entire lives on the line to give it a shot. Also, Pinnicle prefers GIA grads because they have a 97% pass rate in airline training as opposed to street hires which have a pass rate of 73%.

Perhaps "given" is not the best choice of words, but these are the exact words live and direct from the Gulfstream Academy website:

Over The Past Year, Gulfstream Has Successfully Placed Approximately 90% Of Its 220 Graduates Into Part-121 Airline First Officer Positions Flying The Boeing 717, Canadair And Embraer Regional Jet, Saab 340C, And Beech 1900D.

One question I would ask is are P-F-T grads being hired directly from P-F-T into the B717 jobs or must they stop at some regional along the way? I realize that schools of all kinds engage in deceptive hype to sell their course. My paralegal school was no exception. Having said that, the statement strongly represents that the next step after Gulfstream is such a job.

Also, how much energy does Gulfstream expend toward placing its grads? I feel I'm asking a fair question. Some schools that promise interviews do nothing after the first interview on the grounds that they fulfilled their obligations by lining up someone for the one interview. And - not referencing any place specifically - how does one know that interview was conducted in good faith? There is a signficant expenditure of money, not to mention signficant debt and signficant hopes, riding on that interview. An operator such as Gulfstream seemingly has a moral obligation to do everything possible to place its grads.

Am I going to be less respected for dressing up my resume? I think not. My fellow CFI's all hope to do the program soon and want the experiance very badly . . . . . And if I wasn't respected in the industry, then why to corporate pilots call me on a regular basis to fly with them?

Here, again, Russian, your comment begs the question as to why you would need to P-F-T in the first place. To the contrary, dressing-up your resume with P-F-T time would be totally unnecessary, and, perhaps, detrimental, if you can offer turbine and corporate experience along with instructing. (You had said on an earlier post that you have flown jets.) From the sounds of it, you sound like a hard worker and, from your comments on the thread about instrument approaches, a knowledgeable flight instructor.

Other people I fly with know what I am doing and they don't judge my ability to operate an aircraft because I got an education loan . . . .

. . . . which is absurd. Flying ability has nothing to do with how one finances one's training - especially so with P-F-T. Judging someone because he/she used education loans would invalidate much of this year's graduating college class, much less those who obtain loans to attend other types of schools.

On a final note, I am content with my decision to attend GIA. I do not need your respect, nor have I requested it from someone who judges integrity based on their opinion of how one builds time.

It's your decision. Right or wrong. But, in your situation, why P-F-T?

 

[ataopsdave]

bobbysamd

I know a guy that did the program there and interviewed with Pinnacle but didnt get the job. About 5 days after he found out he didnt get a job they called him and told him he would have an interview with Colgan next week.

 

[The_Russian]

Ok. Lets talk....

are P-F-T grads being hired directly from P-F-T into the B717 jobs or must they stop at some regional along the way?

No way! Actually most of those guys are Captains that went through the program and did there time at the airline. So, they were permenent hires after the F/O program, got Captain upgrade, then recently went to Air Tran. I think it was 5 or 6 in the past two months that got hired.

Also, how much energy does Gulfstream expend toward placing its grads?

They place an extreme amount of stress on their shoulders at the marketing department to keep this promise. If you don't get permenent hire, choose or don't get hired by Pinnicle, then the Program manager will do his best to get you a job at another regional. The leftovers from Pinnicle (some are leftover by choice) usually go to Colgan or Commute Air. I have only seen two guys not get hired by anyone. Honestly, if you don't pass the Pinnicle interview, then you need help on your professionalism. You and I both know that there are bad apples everywhere. <--- I believe this is improved grammar. j/k

Here, again, Russian, your comment begs the question as to why you would need to P-F-T in the first place.

First reason is because I wanted to. I know how good the program is and I want the training. Second, I have low multi time even though most of it is Beech Starship and CE-550 time. Oh yeah and the semen-hole too. I did the math and with having to commute to Ft. Pierce (V-8 gas guzzler), the cost would have been the same at Ari- Ben Aviator to build the time in the Dutchess.

Also I talked to a lot of friends at the regionals, (ASA, Great Lakes, COEX, and GIA CA's although this is somewhat bias) and they actually insisted that my attendence at GIA along with my instructional experiance would not only put me ahead of the pack, but ensure me a slot at their airlines. (previous 121 training) Not to say that I am in any way guaranteed a job, but I want an edge over the competition. I don't see it as stepping on others toes because I have CFI'ed for many years now.

I also have neglected to state that I also don't feel great about a 500 hr or less pilot in the right seat of an RJ. On the other hand, GIA is great training and the pilots that it produces are top-notch. I feel that most of these guys are the only exception to the 1000 hour rule. However I cannot defend TAB and others because I have never associated with their final product. I also have always encouraged my students at GIA to get their CFI and instruct on the side to build real PIC experiance and knowledge. Most have taken my advice and done it, even for extra cash (starving f/o's).

Hopefully this calmed response answers some of your questions. I also enjoyed your response to my post. I think we just got off to a long, bad start. I just needed to take a step back (some of my peers weren't too happy with me either).