Gulfstream Academy...

[Zekeflyer]

I have seen all the back and forth about Gulfstream and other "Bought seats to the Airlines schools". Is it really that bad? I am 25-yrs old, a college grad, and it seems like I can't escape the "dead" time in aviation where all airline bound pilots must either flight instruct, fly cargo or some other low paying flight job to build time for the airlines.
My question is then why is it bad to by-pass all these routes and enroll in a program that will clear the way to the airlines for you? Sure, you are "paying" for the seat, but you still have to produce in order to keep your job right? Couldn't your credentials speak for themselves after you've built up sufficient time?

 

[172driver]

You have no credentials after completing a program like that. Cargo, flight instructing, check flying, etc. may be low paying but it is challenging flying with lots of decision making and learning going on every time you strap in. Try it out for a while and then tell me it's 'dead' time.

Sure, you can learn as a SIC, but who's making the decisions? When you move on, interviewers will want to know if you know what to do if the stuff hits the fan.

 

[Lucky]

GS

And what is 250 hours of SIC going to get you? You say your TT is about 100 hours. well lets assume you have 300 TT by the time you go to GS. Then you pay them $23K for the 250 SIC and no ratings. I cant think of many decent airlines that will hire you with such low time. You only added 23k to your bill and came out no better then when you went in. the same money spent at an Academy can get you your CFI's and your hours. and God only knows how much time you could get at a local FBO with 23K

PFT'ers Flame on!

 

[Zekeflyer]

Gulfstream...

I have to admit, I am new to aviation (if my total time isn't any indication). Whta is SIC? P-F-T? and some of the other lingo that gets thrown around...maybe these are things I weill find out after instructing for a while(hahaha).
I am a chemical engineer, I have a good job with pretty good pay and benefits. what will I do for health insurance after I get my ratings and start instructing full time? I have considered instructing part-time but my job requires me to travel all over the world.
It would be pretty hard to Justify my position in my compnay if I suddenly couldn't go overseas for weeks or months at a time.
I have also heard that in the airlines unlike in Engineering and every other job out there, If you are going along and you loose your job or your company goes out of buisness, you can't get another job making the same kind of money you had before. You would have to start again as a first officer, at bottom of the pay scale and start up the salary ladder all over again. Is this true? All that time cvounts for nothing? This is pretty scary. what do y'all think?
I am trying to decide between a career in the airlines or a career in law. (I am already tired of engineering).

 

[de727ups]

Dead time...haha

"I can't escape the "dead" time in aviation"

What you call dead time is building experience in the career...something everyone who wants to be an airline pilot should do.

The problem with PFT is that those who chose that route are contributing to the race to see how low we will go as professional pilots. Some will go so low as to pay for a job. Some are willing to pay to sit in a seat that is normally an entry level regional job. What is to stop PFT from spreading to the majors...next thing you know Delta will want 50K to work there as an F/O.

When you got your first job as a chemical engineer, did you work for free? How would you like it if when you were looking for your first chemical engineering job, you found out that you had to work for free for six months if you wanted the job?

 

[bobbysamd]

Dead time

t seems like I can't escape the "dead" time in aviation where all airline bound pilots must either flight instruct, fly cargo or some other low paying flight job to build time for the airlines.

None of the examples that you listed is "dead" time at all. There is no "dead" time in aviation. You will learn something from each flight you take. You will learn something from every example you listed - and I'm talking strictly about various aspects of flying. You will learn what it means to deal with adversity, work with people, solve problems. Gain an appreciation for "live" time for which you built your career. Everything I mentioned will put you directly in line for the airlines.

Couldn't your credentials speak for themselves after you've built up sufficient time?

That goes to my point above. The long and short of paying-for-training is you don't need credentials. You just need money.

Let's be real. Despite what these outfits might claim, the only real "credential" you need is a big enough bank account to pay for the training. They may state minimum requirements to be "hired," but, I guarantee, you brandish a check for your P-F-T tuition and you will be "hired" forthwith.

And, therein, lies the evil of P-F-T. It devalues the value of experience and hard work. P-F-T demonstrates, again, that flying is primarily a rich man's/woman's game, and lets such people cut in line. I realize I've written that point many, many times before. Maybe to put it another way; how much experience do you have as a chemical engineer? How would you like it if some kid with the ink barely wet on his diploma got the next job on the ladder for which you've worked hard because he bought his way in? Betcha anything you wouldn't like it.

Hope that explains a few things.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

what is going to happen to you after the time you paid for is up? You don't seriously expect them to hire you as a paid pilot right after you just proved you would pay rather than get paid to do that job. Besides they have 2 other suckers in line ready to buy that job of yours right out from under you.

 

[Timebuilder]

I am 25-yrs old, a college grad, and it seems like I can't escape the "dead" time in aviation where all airline bound pilots must either flight instruct, fly cargo or some other low paying flight job to build time for the airlines.

Don't worry. I wasn't injured when I fell out of my chair. Glad I'm still young enough that I wasn't on the floor, calling out "I've fallen down, and I can't get up!!"

This "dead time" in aviation is where you learn the ropes and gain valuable experience by instructing, cargo flying, etc.

I hate to tell you this, but there is no "direct line to an avition job flying regional jets."

This isn't one of those jobs like medical or dental assiting where you spend six months training and then it's onward and upward. You spend YEARS here in preparation, then maybe you get a shot.

Reality check complete.

 

[350DRIVER]

what is going to happen to you after the time you paid for is up? You don't seriously expect them to hire you as a paid pilot right after you just proved you would pay rather than get paid to do that job. Besides they have 2 other suckers in line ready to buy that job of yours right out from under you.

The other two "suckers" will move in when his time is up in the 1900, he is then off to Pinnacle or one of the other very select few regionals that will take him. There is a reason why only a few regionals buy into this program, it would be quite interesting to know exactly how much of the money is switching hands from GIA to Pinnacle at this point... I would advise you to think twice about such a move since with the way the industry is present day there is absolutely no need to take a short cut that will have a major impact on your career..

It is a tad bothersome and also somewhat disturbing to see how these marketing departments continue to take advantage of these young and nieve applicants since they are not well informed at such an early point in this game.


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[bobbysamd]

Gulfstream to Pinnacle

The other two "suckers" will move in when his time is up in the 1900, he is then off to Pinnacle or one of the other very select few regionals that will take him . . . .

. . . if he is taken immediately, if at all.

What if Pinnacle et al have no openings? That means he might only be placed in a pool(s). And, how long are his pool rights? If that happens, will Gulfstream exert any effort on the sucker's part to place him elsewhere sooner? I heard of an instance where Gulfstream rehired a P-F-T grad, who had his CFI, to instruct in its ab initio school. Fair enough, on Gulfstream's part. But, undoubtedly, the grad must have been disappointed after Gulfstream told him told to expect, and sold him on, an airline job.

I feel a point about P-F-T that is not made clear is that hours earned come out of sequence. Non-P-F-Ters are ripe for the regionals after they've built at least 1200 total and 200 of multi PIC. I would submit that more competitive mins are 1500 total, 500 multi and an ATP. Gulfstream grads end their P-F-T tours with something like 500 total and 250 of 1900 SIC. (Those who enter with more total and/or multi time leave with higher amounts in those categories.) Those amounts still fall way short of mainstream regional hiring mins. So, to be qualified for mainstream regionals, how do they build that time? And, by the time they build that time, their Gulfstream 121 time may be stale, and very well may be discounted because of how it was obtained. Moreover, the regionals may have applicants with far more 121 time than Gulfstream applicants offer.

Once more, I cannot emphasize it enough, caveat emptor. All the P-F-T diatribes, tantrums and temperance lectures aside, P-F-T requires a significant outlay of money. As the motor oil commercial says, "you can pay now, or pay later."