Gulfstream Academy

[Jboss]

Wow.

Maybe you should consider going a bit easier on the PFT guys and Gals. I'm not one of them, but I work with a lot of them. Such was the business when they got in, and I don't blame them. Maybe it was a stupid and unfair system, but that was the system, and for some it was the best option considering every factor in their lives at the time. I just can't imagine ever discriminating against these very talented pilots in a hiring situation based solely on the fact that they pft'ed. When you interview somebody, you hire them based in large part on how they interviewed....you know, on personality. I just think you'd be selling yourself short and missing out on some great folks. But to each his own.

Fly safe

 

[jaybird]

To me it's a question of character. Put two people in the same interview. Both are great people, great pilots and meet the same minimums, however one is a PFT'er and the other worked his way up the food chain. Who would you want to choose?

It says something about a person who wants the easy way out, or into a cockpit I know I am still a neophyte in this industry, but I know taking the longer road will be more fulfilling in the end.

 

[mkingmei]

thats enough

well i think we have moved off of the topic of my original post. I want to say thank you to the people who actually tried to give me information and no thanks to the people who used this as there own personal soap box.

all i asked for was information, i didn't ask whether anyone thought it was ."morally repugnant or unprofessional". no one ever thinks that in the long run it creates a paying job for what might be a great pilot or maybe even your best friend some day.

think about this for a second... is PFT any different then those of you that daddy bought an airplane for????????

just as a side note... has anyone done the math on 250 hours for $19800? very similar to an hour of C172 time.

thanks again

 

[airmack]

Re: Re: Gulfstream reply...

Please explain how paying $19,800 to warm the right seat of a 1900 is a “real job”.

In reference to your statement. Prior to going to GIA I was a mechanic in the military for 8 year busting my knuckles on fighters, while you were at your house watching Mr. Rogers and whining to your mom about kids that cut in front of you at the water fountain. I am a true believer in investing for your future. Your probably still waiting for someone to pay for your college degree. Give me a break! I didn't pay 19,800 for 250 hours. I paid $7500 for 250 hours, my Uncle Sam paid the rest. If you do the math, it's $30 per flight hour. Not a bad investment from my point of view.

 

[flydog]

To Publisher:

1. UPAS was founded by ALPA

So what. They continue to charge $100 and up for people
to update resumes at airlines who are
obviously not hiring. Cheating these people out of money
by giving them false hope of a job is a scam


2. Gulfstream started their second officer deal in a flying situation that did not require a second officer at all. Did not take anyones job and gave some the opportunity for multi time.

Gulfstream isnt in the business to help people as you try
to convince us. Their only interest is their bottom line.
If Gulfstream didnt exist their business would go to a
legitimate Regional Airline that hires experienced pilots
for honest pay



3. Tell me who among us has not ever gone to a local airport and begged for some time for free.

All of us have and there is nothing wrong for it. There is
also nothing wrong with paying for that time or reimbursing
the owner, etc. This is not the same as paying for a job.
When you bum a ride from someone you are not putting
another pilot out of work and lowering the industry
pay scales



6. AEPS and Air Inc must be viable, they have aviation companies and airlines who constantly indicate they work with them because they provide a service. Exploitation? If you do not think they will help you, don't use them. You obviosuly do not need any help.

Enron must also be a viable company since companies
worked with them ?!??

Charging people $20 head to sit in a room with 30 other
pilots to listen to a so called recuiter talk about his company
is a scam. Much like going to a Wade Cook investing seminar
The reason these companies work with AEPS is because
they profit from Air Fairs and seminars

 

[flydog]

Getting your 737 type rating is not the same as paying for a job. This is also like saying that paying for your own Private, Instrument, Commercial, and CFI is like paying Gulfstream $19,800 to work there.

A would be doctor obviously is expected to pay his or her way through medical school but if that same person then pays a hospital $20,000 to get a job there then obviosuly he/she is doing themselves, the medical profession, and their patients a great disservice

Get it?

Southwest does not directly profit from the 737 type rating schools. Their policy is a matter of tradition more than a profit motive. Furthermore it doesnt put other pilots out of work since the hiring standards are a lot higher than just checking for a pulse and having a check book as is the case at Gulfstream. As a matter of fact Southwest is one of the few majors that requires 1000 hrs of PIC Turbine and the first year FO pay is comparable or higher than the average airline.

I think the point of PFT is that inexperienced people are buying themselves a job. A pilot obtaining new ratings an paying for them out of their own pocket isnt the same thing

 

[chperplt]

We can argue all day long about the good and bad of a program such as Gulfstream's. The fact is that mkingmei has to what is right for him...

I can tell you this though. If you do chose to go that route, you will deal with the repercussions later in life. You won't have a problem getting a job after Gulfsteam. There are plenty of small regionals such as the one I fly for that will hire you without hesitation. The problems will come while you're out there flying the line. Many of the captains you fly with will have a problem with you and it will be an uncomfortable situation for a while until you prove your worth. And then it may still be a problem.

There were 3 Ex Gulfstream program guys in my class last Feb. All three of them could fly the 1900 just fine, but sure had a hell of time for the first 6 or 8 months flying the line. Captains didn't like the route they took and gave them grief about it..

Keep all this in mind when you make your decision. If you can deal with being treated like a sh!t head for a while....

Good luck with your decision

 

[Wiggums]

Re: Re: Re: Gulfstream reply...

In reference to your statement. Prior to going to GIA I was a mechanic in the military for 8 year busting my knuckles on fighters, while you were at your house watching Mr. Rogers and whining to your mom about kids that cut in front of you at the water fountain. I am a true believer in investing for your future. Your probably still waiting for someone to pay for your college degree. Give me a break! I didn't pay 19,800 for 250 hours. I paid $7500 for 250 hours, my Uncle Sam paid the rest. If you do the math, it's $30 per flight hour. Not a bad investment from my point of view.

Sorry, but my parents paid for college, and all my ratings. We had cable so I didn't watch much Mr. Rogers, and if a kid cut in front of me at the water fountain I would have kicked his ass. Alas, I guess I'm not worthy because I didn't spend eight years of my life as a grease monkey turning wrenches so I could take $12k in taxpayer's money to rent-a-seat at some two bit operation in FL. I hope you hate my guts because you just think that I'm some kid you got everything handed to him on a silver platter.

However you try to justify it, you're still taking a seat that should be filled by a paid pilot.

 

[DougCorp-9]

Gulfstream is not PFT

I think some people here are confusing paying for your training where when you are finished you have a job and paying money at Gulfstream to get a certain number of hours. When you are finished at Gulfstream you don't have a job.

You all might want to ease up on us PFT people a bit. Many of us happen to care about this profession a great deal but at certain times in this industry supply and demand rears its head. Don't think it won't happen again.

 

[BoredToDeath]

For What Its Worth

Lets try to put all this in a different perspective by taking aviation out of the picture. What other industry requires its employees to pay a fee to come to work for them? I don't know of any except of course a few aviation related ones. If a plumber just graduated plumbers school and went to look for work, having never work as a plumber yet, and the company he/she applied to said, " Yeh sure you can work here, BUT it will cost you such and such to do so" , what do you think that plumbers gonna say? I'm pretty sure that guy/gal would have some pretty choice words before exiting the interview. At least this was the answer I got from my cousin who happens to be one plumber out of God knows how many. I'm just trying to say that once the basics of training are over we should'nt have to continue to pay just to work.

The COMPANY should be responsible for its costs, not the employee. If the company can't do this, it should not be in business. Businesses should not be allowed to get away with this when they already get away with enough. Employees as a whole need to send a positive message that they will not be taken advantage of anymore. Don't buy you're job, you're better than that.

To the spelling police, sorry its late and I'm tired but can't sleep.

 

[Ty Webb]

Sure, you were making your own choice, but you hurt your profession when you did so.

When guys agreed to pay thousands of dollars to companies like Comair and COEX they not only jumped in front of other pilots who were more competitively qualified, they also caused the pay at the non-PFT carriers to suffer, as well.

Pilots trying to bring up their pay at non-PFT carriers like Eagle and Mesa heard management say, "Hey, at least you didn't have to pay for your training".

When I look back at the damage that was caused to the regional airline industry by people who agreed to pay for their own training, I find it sickening.