Grumman GA7 question

[FutureTEDpilot]

I have owned several hotrod aerobatic planes, Extra's/Pitts's/Eagles's

For a spam can you cannot beat the Grumman line, not to mention it was really easy to sell one, mostly I would have my AA1-C Sold before it went to print in Trade-a-Plane. Same with the Tiger and Cheetah I had.

 

[erj-145mech]

I am looking to hold onto it for at least a few years and use to travel for business. I also read that the inner spar is life limited to around 5,000 hours? Is that a life ending part like it is in the Seminole?

According to the Type Certificate Data Sheet for the GA-7, the inboard spar assy 1W10201-1 has a service life of 47,674 hours. Shouldn't be too much of a factor unless you put 40,000 hours on it.

 

[NuGuy]

Parts may be a problem for the Cougar as to my knowledge, Fletcher Aviation in Houston (http://www.fletchair.com/) is one of only a few companies left with PMA for parts (like engine and flight control linkages) for the Gruman aircraft like the Cougar.

This is true. The other thing is that EADS Socata bought the Cougar type certificate from the estate of the last defunct American General (last owners of the old Grumman certificates...NOT the people who own those types now). I haven't heard of them doing anything with it, including doing any kind of parts support.

You might try the American Yankee Association, as they are the type club for all Grumman birds (www.aya.org). Those type clubs, like the Cessna Pilots Association, are always tied right into the parts scene, and if they can't help, probably no one can.

Nu

 

[TIS]

The engines are counter rotating.

Uhh, no they're not - not on a GA-7.

 

[siucavflight]

Uhh, no they're not - not on a GA-7.

See post 18.

 

[TIS]

Oops. Missed that one. Sorry.

TIS

 

[siucavflight]

Oops. Missed that one. Sorry.

TIS

No problem, sometimes I have so many different planes and numbers floating around in my head that I forget which one is which.

 

[Steve]

According to the Type Certificate Data Sheet for the GA-7, the inboard spar assy 1W10201-1 has a service life of 47,674 hours. Shouldn't be too much of a factor unless you put 40,000 hours on it.

Thanks for looking that info up.

Do you have any experience fixing light twins after gear up landings? I am looking at a GA-7 that had a gear up (pilot error, just didnt put the gear handle down) and was wondering what a ballpark would be? I'd assume the props are trash and the engines would need complete rebuilds?

 

[erj-145mech]

I've repaired several airplanes that have bellied in. The one that I hated was on a brand new Piper Seneca, 15 hours on the clock. New owner was getting checked out, and pulled the gear control breaker to silence the horn while doing single engine maneuvers. They had the nav lights on so the gear indicator lights were dim, threw the handle down on downwind, and made such a pretty landing, real short though.

The problem with repairing a Cougar is that its an orphan, the mechanic will most likely have to fabricate formers and skins from sheet stock. Check the motor mount tubular structure for cracks and buckling also. That energy from the prop strikes has to be transferred somewhere. There's a new Lycoming AD Note out to replace the crank gear bolt on prop strikes too. You might get away with leaving the pistons in the cylinders on the engine teardown and just tackle the bottom end of the engine, depending on the time on the engine.

 

[Steve]

I've repaired several airplanes that have bellied in. The one that I hated was on a brand new Piper Seneca, 15 hours on the clock. New owner was getting checked out, and pulled the gear control breaker to silence the horn while doing single engine maneuvers. They had the nav lights on so the gear indicator lights were dim, threw the handle down on downwind, and made such a pretty landing, real short though.

The problem with repairing a Cougar is that its an orphan, the mechanic will most likely have to fabricate formers and skins from sheet stock. Check the motor mount tubular structure for cracks and buckling also. That energy from the prop strikes has to be transferred somewhere. There's a new Lycoming AD Note out to replace the crank gear bolt on prop strikes too. You might get away with leaving the pistons in the cylinders on the engine teardown and just tackle the bottom end of the engine, depending on the time on the engine.

I thought that there would be issues finding parts. This is the Cougar I was looking at
http://www.dodson.com/grumman_cougar.htm

Not sure if its worth the trouble and if the numbers would make it a good deal or not.

 

[erj-145mech]

That price looks a little "pricey" for a fix-r-upper. But he does advertise, "or best offer". When all is said and done, you'll have more in it than its worth. If you were a retired mech, and looking for a project, and could do most of the work yourself, had the time to spend, then it may be a good deal.

It does have a nice center stack though.

 

[Steve]

That price looks a little "pricey" for a fix-r-upper. But he does advertise, "or best offer". When all is said and done, you'll have more in it than its worth. If you were a retired mech, and looking for a project, and could do most of the work yourself, had the time to spend, then it may be a good deal.

It does have a nice center stack though.

I.ve seen average condition GA-7's sell for over $100k so I guess the repairs are over $65k? When I spoke with them the price I was told was $37k for it as is.

 

[NuGuy]

I.ve seen average condition GA-7's sell for over $100k so I guess the repairs are over $65k? When I spoke with them the price I was told was $37k for it as is.

I wouldn't really hold being gear-upped against any airplane I was looking at. If done right, a smooth touchdown does realitively little damage. A surprising number of pre-1990's Seminoles have been geared up, almost to the point where it doesn't really count against them.

If you are considering this, think about this:

In any gear up repair, the landing has to have been smooth, and airframe damage has to have been minor (scraping of belly skins, antennas being cleaning off, damage to the training edges of the flaps, that kind of thing) to make it worthwhile. On this Cougar, I see that the pilot's window was broken...I sure as heck would like to know what caused that...if it was caused by the landing, that was an awful lot of airframe flex, and you can bet the are other problems.

Engines I wouldn't worry about. You can always buy two new engines and props, and you can probably get some core value for the engines on the plane.

I wouldn't expect this to be a turnkey operation and make any money off it (IE, drop this thing off at a shop and say "call me when it's fixed). As the other guy said, this would be a better project for an A&P.

There are exceptions...back in 1989, there was a PA-44 that had been geared up twice. The FBO wound up buying the aircraft from the owner (it was a lease back) to settle the lawsuit. The FBO fixed it up...all the right repairs, new paint, nice new leather interior, TWO new engines and props (right of the crate new). It had a 2 axis AP and HSI already, so it was a nice bird. The price? They really didn't know what they had...$40,000. Heck, you could have sold the engines and made that back. I kick myself to this day that I didn't beg, borrow or steal the money for that...

Nu