Grinstein to use court as "hammer" to pilots

satpak77

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Delta May Use Court to Cut Pilot Costs

By HARRY R. WEBER
AP Business Writer
ATLANTA — Delta Air Lines Inc. is prepared to use the bankruptcy court to achieve $325 million in cost concessions from its pilots if the company and union can't reach a deal on their own, chief executive Gerald Grinstein said Thursday.
Grinstein made the comment after an event at the Carter Center to announce the airline's plans to launch nonstop service from its Atlanta base to Tel Aviv in March.
http://www.ajc.com/business/content/shared-gen/ap/Finance_General/Delta_Bankruptcy-image.html

On Sept. 22, eight days after filing for bankruptcy, Delta said it is targeting $930 million in annual savings from its employees, including $325 million from pilots. The cuts are part of a new turnaround plan that will shed up to 9,000 more jobs.
Unlike Delta's other work groups, the pilots union has to agree to its cuts or have the cuts imposed on the union in bankruptcy court.
Asked Thursday if Delta is prepared to use the courts to get the cuts it is seeking from pilots, Grinstein told the Associated Press, "Yes."
Grinstein said the union so far has been unwilling to negotiate the cuts with the company.
"We've asked them, but they've not been willing to consent," Grinstein said.
He said the union has asked for certain information to help it make its decision, which the company has been providing.
"I don't want to prejudge what they are going to do," Grinstein said.
He added that from the company's standpoint, Delta would like to have the pilot cuts agreed upon by Nov. 1, though he's unsure that will happen.
"Time is a real pressure on us," he said.
Union spokesman John Culp said the organization has had fact-finding meetings with management but wants more information from the company before deciding whether to enter formal negotiations with Delta regarding the concessions.
He declined to respond to Grinstein's comment regarding the use of the bankruptcy court to get the cuts.
In a letter Saturday to pilots, the new chairman of the union's executive committee, Lee Moak, said the union faces "unprecedented challenges," but will not be hasty in making decisions.
"We face challenges to our pay, to our work rules, to our retirement, to our way of life," Moak said. "That is our reality. But while we may be reluctant participants in this process, we will not be victims."
Moak said the union's negotiating committee continues to analyze the company's proposal. He said he anticipates calling the union's executive committee into special session in the next few weeks to receive their report and to provide direction.
"We will make Herculean efforts to impress upon Delta management that the Delta pilots will not be their ATM," Moak wrote.
A year ago, the union agreed to $1 billion in annual concessions to help Delta avoid bankruptcy. But fuel prices soared, and Delta was forced to file for Chapter 11 anyway.
Also Thursday, Grinstein said Delta continues to push for pension reform in Congress. He said the proposal by some lawmakers to allow airlines to spread their employee pension payments over 14 years is not enough. He said 20 years may work for Delta, though the company has been pushing for 25 years to meet its funding obligations.
 

737 Pylt

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enough
not quite!

One thing to remember here. The 2 sides have to come to an agreement, in other words, they meet, disagree/agree. Then, only after a failure to come to an agreement does the company take it to the judge. Hope that clears it up.
737
 

General Lee

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Satpak,

Did anyone think they wouldn't go to the judge to ask for cash back? The company has to file a 1113C which starts a clock---51 days I believe---to negotiate something before it goes to the judge. They haven't done that yet, but probably will. They gave our union their demands, and our union is still "costing them"--or looking at the costs for each demand and determining how much they really are worth. This is all expected. We know the DIP financing comes along with terms that the pilots give $325 million a year extra, and the rest give $605 million. We just don't want to give something really worth $500 million a year, when "all they really want is $325 million....."


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

satpak77

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hey i just saw the article and posted it

not offering my own opinions on it, I know its a big mess

later
 

njcapt

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737 Pylt said:
One thing to remember here. The 2 sides have to come to an agreement, in other words, they meet, disagree/agree. Then, only after a failure to come to an agreement does the company take it to the judge. Hope that clears it up.
737

If the company wants to file for 1113e relief, they can do so tomorrow. There is no requirement to negotiate with the Delta pilots. Even in the event of an 1113c filing, if the Association rejects management's first offer the company can run to the judge as soon as they can get a hearing.

I just got done spending 10 months being beat up by the bankruptcy process while on the Negotiating Commttee at ATA. I wish you guys luck - we were used and abused. The process is not even REMOTELY equitable toward labor. The court's major concern is the continued existence of the entity, with unsecured creditor return a distant second.
 

800Dog

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njcapt said:
If the company wants to file for 1113e relief, they can do so tomorrow. There is no requirement to negotiate with the Delta pilots. Even in the event of an 1113c filing, if the Association rejects management's first offer the company can run to the judge as soon as they can get a hearing.

I just got done spending 10 months being beat up by the bankruptcy process while on the Negotiating Commttee at ATA. I wish you guys luck - we were used and abused. The process is not even REMOTELY equitable toward labor. The court's major concern is the continued existence of the entity, with unsecured creditor return a distant second.

njcapt,
Did you all ever consider withholding your services? I doubt the Delta Pilots will strike but, it would be nice to finally see a pilot group draw a line in the sand and walk away from what has turned into a job rather than a career.
 
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FN FAL

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njcapt said:
If the company wants to file for 1113e relief, they can do so tomorrow. There is no requirement to negotiate with the Delta pilots. Even in the event of an 1113c filing, if the Association rejects management's first offer the company can run to the judge as soon as they can get a hearing.

I just got done spending 10 months being beat up by the bankruptcy process while on the Negotiating Commttee at ATA. I wish you guys luck - we were used and abused. The process is not even REMOTELY equitable toward labor. The court's major concern is the continued existence of the entity, with unsecured creditor return a distant second.
Eloquently stated and complements on the Hunter S. Thompson quote.
 

lowecur

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The Hammer?

I thought his name was the "hummer."

GL, which is it?:laugh:
 

njcapt

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800Dog said:
njcapt,
Did you all ever consider withholding your services? I doubt the Delta Pilots will strike but, it would be nice to finally see a pilot group draw a line in the sand and walk away from what has turned into a job rather than a career.

Yep. We took a strike vote and everything. Problem was that even a one hour strike would likely cave the airline. The ATSB is allowing us to use available cash they have a claim on, but there is a limit to their patience. There were a number of pilots that said they wanted to burn the place down, but a majority decided that they would concede this battle in an effort to win the war later on.

I hope we get the chance.

There is a void in case law of whether partial abrogation of a CBA would allow self help. Bankruptcy law and the RLA don't dovetail together very well. The concern of the ATA MEC was that if we pulled the strike card and got enjoined from actually striking by the bankruptcy judge, it could take years to settle all the appeals and make the threat of a strike largely worthless. We TA'd a three year deal with a 12 month early opener versus the five year motion the company filed in the 1113c case. Theoretically, we could have a new CBA negotiated during a peak in the airline business cycle (like our last one) in the next 36 months. If we took the hard line we could have still been waiting on a Surpreme Court decision on self help at that point.
 

800Dog

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njcapt said:
Yep. We took a strike vote and everything. Problem was that even a one hour strike would likely cave the airline. The ATSB is allowing us to use available cash they have a claim on, but there is a limit to their patience. There were a number of pilots that said they wanted to burn the place down, but a majority decided that they would concede this battle in an effort to win the war later on.

I hope we get the chance.

There is a void in case law of whether partial abrogation of a CBA would allow self help. Bankruptcy law and the RLA don't dovetail together very well. The concern of the ATA MEC was that if we pulled the strike card and got enjoined from actually striking by the bankruptcy judge, it could take years to settle all the appeals and make the threat of a strike largely worthless. We TA'd a three year deal with a 12 month early opener versus the five year motion the company filed in the 1113c case. Theoretically, we could have a new CBA negotiated during a peak in the airline business cycle (like our last one) in the next 36 months. If we took the hard line we could have still been waiting on a Surpreme Court decision on self help at that point.

Thanks for the info. Good luck to you all.
 
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