Grinstein talks about DCI in Q&A

[chperplt]

I'm all for J4J or anything else of that nature that gets your guys back. There are a lot of your fellow pilots that want the staple to flush the bottom DCI guys out however.. It's been said to me on a few occasions by them..

 

[sleepy]

General,

CH11 makes much more sense than dealing with DALPA. You guys are the last major airline guys left standing, and GG wants to destroy you. Why should he bother giving you anything when the US bankruptcy Court will take most of what you have for him and give you nothing in return.

This is about more than the here and now. In CH11 GG can set your PWA back 20 years. That will have a lasting effect on the whole airline industry (and DALs bottom line) for years to come.

Why get a 30% pay cut when he can get a 60% pay cut? What would your pilots do about it? Quit? Where will you go? JB, SWA, AirTran?

What happens at DCI is the least of your worries General. You have bigger problems than who will fly a few 50 or 70 seat jets. It does make a nice diversion for your pilots to worry that the DCI pilots are stealing their jobs. You can spend hours on the ALPA boards arguing with RJDC people about the state of the profession and who owns the flying (the shareholder IMHO). What you should worry about is that JB, AirTran, and SWA are stealing your best customers, and they won't be coming back. Just wait until JB starts flying to Europe. Ouch!

 

[comrcap]

Staple This Bonehead

Title says it all

 

[sleepy]

Title says it all

You won't be stapleing me anywhere numbnuts. I'm outta the "portfolio" in a few more weeks.

 

[wms]

I'm all for J4J or anything else of that nature that gets your guys back. There are a lot of your fellow pilots that want the staple to flush the bottom DCI guys out however.. It's been said to me on a few occasions by them..

I don't know about CA, but at ASA our contract gives protection in the event of a buy-out, sell-out or merger. Barring being sold-out by ALPA, a seniority merger could not result in furloughs at DCI. Besides, we would have to vote on a seniority merger and would not support it without protections.

 

[wms]

Wrong. I have also said on this forum that I would want a fence established to protect any junior DCI pilots. I don't think anyone should be furloughed---and I have fought to try to help our own furloughs. But, I have a feeling that any negotiations will include some sort of J4J or "MDA style" scheme. If Grinstein wants pay cuts-- he will have to give something in return---and since we are the only ones targeted right now---we will get something in return for huge pay cuts. That is the way it is--and the RJDC can't do anything about NEW AIRCRAFT orders. We can negotiate for new 70 seaters at Mainline--or anything else in exchange for pay cuts. A staple with protections for the junior DCI pilots might be the best deal going.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

I think it's the best thing for everyone. I hope the proposal from DALPA and the creditors includes a merger between CA/ASA as well as brand-scope. It would be a huge savings and would be the way to reduce the number of RJs without furloughs. Additional aircraft should go to DAL; and if they're 70s, it would give us something to shoot for since DAL pilots aren't going to fly 70s for the same rate as us.

Staples with protection, all new aircraft going to ML and all new vacancies filled by furloughees, along with a leaner DCI would make DAL a better place.

 

[General Lee]

Only WMS sees the full picture here. Sleepy is still in his daze----oh yeah, watch out--Jetblue will go to Europe in 2015.... and our competition is dealing with Song--which is doing well and stealing passengers from Jetblue. Also, you can't just change everything you want in Chap 11--there still has to be negotiations. Also, he would be investigated if he just went into Chap 11 to get the pilots--neglecting his FIDUCIARY responsibilities. Making stock worthless for thousands of people might make them angry.

Comrcap,

Well, ok. Remember, management remembers your strike too. (that cost the corporation another $1 billion)


Chprpilot,

I don't think anyone wants more furloughs on the street. We would just like to have ours come back sooner than later into a cockpit. After pay cuts are done, many newer planes may eventually come our way--and we would like to see our guys/gals come back. That seems fair.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[chperplt]

Also, you can't just change everything you want in Chap 11--there still has to be negotiations.

Ask the good folks at US Air... They lost everything after they were told exactly what you state above..

I would like nothing more than to see your guys and gals back to work. Frankly, I don't see why there hasn't been a J4J deal done already. I'm glad to be at Comair, but maybe if you guys could have negotiated last year, your furloughed would have been put in those new hire slots.

 

[General Lee]

Negotiated with who? Not Lawson---he wanted something to help our people. That wasn't very nice. We, along with every other ALPA airline, didn't flinch when we gave money--even if it was mandated. ASA didn't ask for anything---only Lawson. ASA understood what was going on and offered help to some of our furloughs---and that will not be forgotten.


As far as USAir and their negotiations---they did get J4J and MDA---Mesa didn't take over every regional flight. United ALPA got their airline to give J4J to their furloughs--and even at second year pay. The people at the bottom will be taken care of---in or out of Chap 11---and Dalpa is currently talking in a committee with 40 creditors and vendors to give Delta a huge cut in costs---including our pay cuts. Delta can't just turn that down without good reason....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[lowecur]

Ask the good folks at US Air... They lost everything after they were told exactly what you state above..

Funny things happen in 11. People will sell their grandmother's rocker to save their jobs. Now you know why male tigers eat their young.

 

[lowecur]

Delta can't just turn that down without good reason....

DALPA is doing everything by the book, but believe me that Greenjeans will start sending out signals to the markets at least 30 days in advance if he intends to file 11. By that time the stock will be worthless. In fact, I have my doubts that any large institutional shareholders remain at this point. My guess is a good percentage of DL stock is held by the hedge funds and traders, as there is too much risk.

I think your reasoning that a company cannot go into 11 as shareholders would class action sue is non-sense. Any shareholder in the stock at this point is certainly aware of the risk, and would have a whale of time proving otherwise. Greenjeans has said bankruptcy would be his last option, but it is still his call to make. If he cannot get the percentage he needs from pilots (including scope & workrules), other employee groups, and creditors.........he will move to 11. He must see in his minds eye that all the give backs will be enough to make the company viable for the long term, especially the ability to pay the pension obligations.

 

[sleepy]

I am not in a daze General. I see thing clearly. You and your DAPLA buddies just need a dose of reality. I talked to some of your guys on the bus the other day. Can you say La La Land.

 

[bvt1151]

Only WMS sees the full picture here.

That assumes (incorrectly, I might add) that you do too.

oh yeah, watch out--Jetblue will go to Europe in 2015.... and our competition is dealing with Song--which is doing well and stealing passengers from Jetblue.

And this proves just how jaded your view of the world is. JetBlue is raping you guys on the east coast. Airtran, by Grinstein's own admission, is destroying Delta single-handedly in Atlanta...and we haven't even gotten to SWA yet. ATA and Jetblue have expressed interest in Europe. Perhaps its time to pull your head out of the sand and realize where the true threats are. I guarantee its not in the 50-70 seat jets who are actually providing your airline with its only positive cash flow. How much profit is JBLU, Airtran, or SWA bringing Delta?
It took you guys 30 years to realize that SWA is actually not a niche carrier. How long will it take you to realize your underestimization of JetBlue and Airtran? Hopefully soon. You've got less than a year, then BK.

tick tock...

 

[Medeco]

Medeco,


I don't post here to get your respect. I call it like I see it. It is all my opinion, and I know I could be wrong from time to time. But, what I say does have some truth in it---and a lot of you guys don't want to acknowledge it either. I believe we need pay cuts here at Delta--and we need more overall cost cutting. But, I also can see that the RJ is not our only answer---and we have over done it thanks to Fred GREED. Now, we don't have the capacity to carry all of the passengers that "are back", and we have too many RJs that are clogging up the system and can't bring in the required revenue for our hubs. (like the Summertime weight problems--making the 50 seater a 45 seater) I don't blame everything on DCI and the RJs--there are clearly other problems (like our pay--which is being addressed)---like higher aircraft lease rates and airport lease rates that are also going to be fixed. I don't try to pretend that I know everything and how to fix it--but there are some problems that are just obvious--like our over dependence on RJs right now---when fares are decreasing at the same time. Not good.

As far as ideas of my own---We need larger aircraft (100 seaters probably) to compete directly with the LCCs--instead of 50 and 70 seaters. Those could be financed after we give back huge pay cuts. Look, Spirit financed a huge amount of Airbuses (Airbi) with $150 million from an investment group. USAir bought a bunch of RJs (why?) in Chap 11. Then we also need a rolling hub in ATL and CVG (something Grinstein has proposed) to allow more productivity of our airplanes. A lot of our planes sit around and are not as productive as other airlines' planes. (Song has increased utilization--up 2-3 hours per day) And, we need to stop relying on RJs and use them as they were intended---as feeder flights( hub feed and maybe some point to point), new route finders( to eventually give new routes to mainline if successful), and flights to cities with NO LCC competition.(to maximize fares and revenue) I am sure there are many more ways to cut costs and bring this around. Also, don't sell your fuel hedges during a Middle East crisis.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General Lee,

Whatever. You put me to sleep, Im going to ride my bike and stop wasting my time.

Now I remember why I stopped reading this website so much.

Medeco

 

[General Lee]

BVT1151,


There you go again. Yes, your 50 seat jets bring in profit---(well, now 45 seat jets with the new weights)---but they are flying on routes that used to have 727s---and more revenue could be had to help us--but we parked all of our planes. Why is it that all of the profitable airlines (Jetblue, Southwest, and NOW AIRTRAN) dropped or never had RJs? More seats and low fares can squeeze a profit--along with cost reductions that are happening right now with us. Your 50 seat RJs will eventually only fly to cities with no LCC competition--and those cities are shrinking in number. Jetblue and Airtran are affecting us with fare price. We are fighting back with Song and doing well (Grinstein would have canned it now if it wasn't--and he said he is impressed). Also, the LCCs are growing and eventually will fight each other--something you haven't even realized yet. Jetblue and Southwest do not compete on one single route--yet. Nobody else will be invading ATL--and even Airtran is running out of space and will have to wait for a few years until their new terminal is built. Until then, we will replace our 50 seaters with larger planes and bring in more revenue to stregthen our hub--even Grinstein said he predicts a rolling hub that adds 30-40 new flights a day to compete with Airtran at ATL.

Medeco,

As good old Xremeflyer loves to say, "Night night Susan."

Bye Bye--General Lee