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Green Cards for all?

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shroomwell

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2003
Posts
280
I can't believe the president wants to do this. I know the first thought for most is that of the Mexican farm workers and low paid hard labor jobs, and I know we need those people to fill those jobs that nobody wants.

However the first thing that went thru my mind was, are they going to give a green card to every foreign pilot that wants one. That could end up depressing wages even lower. Who knows maybe cleaning hotel rooms will be a more profitable career choice than flying.

And, yes that last line is probably going to be considered flame bait.
 
Shroomwell,

You are correct. While the Bush Administration does many, many things correctly, they are dropping the ball on the immigration issue.

But, both sides (Repubs/Dems) are doing the wrong thing when it comes to immigration. We have got to tighten up our borders if we are ever to have a safer country.

The politics of this thing need to be dropped in favor of a safer America. The politicians are looking to the future of the hispanic vote to turn elections to their favor. They figure the first group that provides looser immigration policy or amnesty will win the votes of the newcommers forever.

If you are a Congress person and want to tighten restrictions on immigration, then you'll be drummed out sight by the other side for being anti-immigration. There are no less than 200 pro-immigration groups, consisting mainly of lawyers, whose sole purpose is to promote free borders and lax immigration policy.

If you vote to loosen immigration policy, like it's not loose enough, then you'll be viewed as soft on national security.

It's a lose-lose situation until we, the taxpayers/voters, have had enough of this BS.

If we declare amnesty for the rediculous amount of illegal aliens ( the PC police call them "Undocumented Workers"), we have in the US where does that leave us? Well, it leaves us with the reputation that anyone who wants to come to this country illegally can do so. With no recourse by the government for deportation. Not that we deport very many illegals anyway. I read that of the 10,000 or so illegals that were caught by the INS/Border Patrol only like 600 were deported. This was because they were not detained, they were given a notice to show up in deportation court or whatever they call it. The vast majority never showed up! Well no sh^t! Would you? Then, how do we explain to all the good folks that have been waiting in line for years to gain legal access to the US that they've been screwed?

Wanna know what Vincente Fox's plan is for solving the Mexican poverty problem is? Open Borders with the US. Let them come to the US and the US has to deal with them. Talk about passing the buck!

Already there are Mexican ambulance companies that if they find out the injured person has no health insurance, they drive the person across the border to a US hospitol for treatment. Many folks may not know this but, US hospitols may NOT ask a person of their status of citizenship. They also may NOT turn a person away if they do not have health insurance. So.....who picks up the tab? You and me, in added insurance premiums. Nice huh?

There currently is a pro-immigration group that is lobbying Congress to allow illegal aliens to collect social security. They are telling Congress that part of their wages were collected as social security, and as such they have a right to receive social security from the US Government, for the rest of their lives! Since when did an illegal immigrant have any rights other than basic human rights? They were here illegally, remember?

Here's a true story that'll make you fume. A Mexican woman in a border town was brought across to the US by her family because she was pregnant and hemmoraging. The emergency room Doc had to make a very difficult descision. He had to spare the woman's life by removing the baby. Otherwise they'd both die. After recovering the woman found a US attorney and sued the hospitol, the surgeon, the nurses and anyone else connected to saving her life. She won. Not only did she win, she was awarded 6 million US dollars. That's gratitude for ya.

Oh well....this thing is bigger than me.
 
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From personal experience...

SWA GUY,

I'm with you on this one. I'm not anti-immigration. On the contrary, I think it's a good idea. But I am very certainly anti-illegal immigration.

Prime example, my wife is Canadian. We jumped through all the hoops (and spent the money) to legally allow her to live and work here in the US. Yet, when I lived in Del Rio, TX, I regularly saw illegals crossing the borders to make their living here.

I found it annoying that my wife, college educated, masters degree, had a hell of a lot more trouble getting to stay here because she did things the legal way. Oh, did I mention that Canada and the US dont share a fence?

Yet, it was easier for illegals to live and work in Del Rio...want to put money on how many of them had a college education? Or had to climb a really high fence? And considering what kind of jobs they would get in the US, for the amount of pay they would get...who here thinks they would end up earning enough money to pay income tax?

Oh, and before anyone gets the idea we are just your homegrown bigoted whitey types...I am part ethnic Korean, my wife is full ethnic Chinese. But we are an American and Canadian first...born and raised in our respective countries.

Okay, I've ranted long enough...jumping off the soapbox, and going back to playing computer games!

Fly Safe!

FastCargo
 
This was done once before (under Reagan I believe) and did absolutely nothing as is evidenced by the current situation. What a stupid idea.
 
Everybody complains about the weather but nobody ever does anything about it.

So if you guys are all done complaining about this new policy, could somebody give some solutions? I personally think it is an improvement. And nowhere in this policy does it say people get "green cards" or "amnesty." The policy only allows people already here get registered as temporary workers so we can know who is in the country. Of course, no terrorist is going to go register, but it's still an improvement.
 
And if we kicked everyone out who's going to cut your lawn, wash dishes at restaurants, bus the tables, babay sit your kids, clean bathrooms and office builidings. etc, etc...... bottom line is no one wants do to these jobs with the pay employers want to offer. On the other hand our social sytem is getting over burdened by this people. The solution is not as easy as it seems.
 
The policy is racist. I'm no bleeding heart liberal, but I am offended to hear administration officials justifying this by saying that this is necessary because the jobs in question are jobs that no citizen will do.

What Barbara Streisand!!!

If the leading Democratic (intentionally mispelled because the media always calls the Democrat party the Democratic party), repeat,,If the leading Democrat party presidential contender can bestow US citizens rights on Osama Bin Runnin for his potential trial, how can we justify relegating these illegals to second class status?

Does anyone think that these people will settle for continued second class status? Maybe that's why most all politicians refuse to support English only, they want a non-english speaking second class.

If we allow these ILLEGALs to become legal, they then deserve to be treated like any other American.

This stupid proposal will encourage more illegal immigration. The only good thing is that we will eventually start making more goods here in the USA, but just like COMMUNIST China, no American worker will be able to afford to buy the product he built.

Looks like I'm voting Libertarian again.

regards,
enigma
 
Obi-Wan said:
And if we kicked everyone out who's going to cut your lawn, wash dishes at restaurants, bus the tables, babay sit your kids, clean bathrooms and office builidings. etc, etc...... bottom line is no one wants do to these jobs with the pay employers want to offer. On the other hand our social sytem is getting over burdened by this people. The solution is not as easy as it seems.

Hello McFly, the illegal immigrants only work these jobs because of their illegal status. Once they become legal, what's to stop them from looking down their nose at these jobs just like American born Hispanics do presently? Don't read anything into my rant here, I don't want them to remain illegal, I want them GONE. If they want to be here, let them do it legally. I have no problem with legal immigration.

regards,
enigma
 
Obi-Wan,
In most cases, the jobs you are referring to (that these illegal immigrants are working) DO NOT even pay a minimum wage. Pick up the September issue of National Geo at the library and read about modern day slavery. Bush's agenda - get the Mexican vote (didn't realize they could even vote... but, apparently, they're more important than Americans).

For those that don't believe that this will affect every single venue of labor in this country, then you're fooling yourself. Of course unemployed Americans don't want "to cut your lawn, wash dishes at restaurants, bus the tables, baby sit your kids, clean bathrooms and office builidings" for less than minimum wage. And, those jobs that do pay atleast a minimum wage in the areas mentioned are filled with legal US citizens.

Sorry, but Bush is off his rocker with this one.

enigma, on the money... except for that Libertarian part...
 
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Come on guys...it's not a bit better in my country. I think every country faces similar problems. Switzerland has just 8 million people (yea right) and 2 million are immigrants. Our own folks stupidity voted for a lowering of immigration via asylum in 1991 and now the country is being filled with people...

One of our regulations is such a great blast that, if the police ask's one of the asyl seekers for a passport, they can even go to court and claim that the police was "racist" because they where asking for a passport ! That's the way we came with Switzerland's unlimited democracy. No offense, i am by no means against democracy, but compared to the immigration protection the USA offers, Switzerland is WIDE OPEN !! Just claim that your country has some sort of war or whatever and Suisse offers you brandnew apartments and even a minimum monthly salaray - for free paid with my taxes....

As for wages and money. A current senior first officer with the lovely "new" national airline (serving on A320/330) get's around CHF 4'300 brutto (means that things such as social security, pension, etc. need to be substracted first). With this salary, you are not able to have an apartment, car, etc. in Switzerland - not to mention a family.
 
enigma said:
Hello McFly, the illegal immigrants only work these jobs because of their illegal status. Once they become legal, what's to stop them from looking down their nose at these jobs just like American born Hispanics do presently? Don't read anything into my rant here, I don't want them to remain illegal, I want them GONE. If they want to be here, let them do it legally. I have no problem with legal immigration.

regards,
enigma

Exactly. Let this 8 million move on, then wait a few years and you have the next 8 million waiting for their turn.

I am an immigrant... wait I am not even an immigrant yet! Just waiting for my f****** green card. I am only an adjustee. For almost 4 years now doing it by the book and now these guys will get it just like that. About $15k spent on lawyers.

Ohhh but it is all good! They won't cut in front of the rest who did it the legal way. Noooo. But guess who is going to work on their paperwork? The exact same already overworked BCIS (or whatever their latest name is ICE?) office that handles the legal immigration cases. More delays...

Can you imagine you have met all the legal criteria through Department of Labor (processing is about 2 years) to become a permanent resident and the only reason that you don't get your GC is because processing takes another 3 years at BCIS? But if my sponsoring company goes bankrupt during the process (mine just did) and I don't find a similar job offer than I can take my stuff and get the f home. If I am correct I get like 10 days to ship out.

But there is hope now! I might be able to go and work on the fields somewhere in New Mexico!!!... who knows I might get an AG job going for myself. Networking right?
 
Here's Irony for you. If you want to come here and VISIT us, we take your picture and fingerprint you. If you want to cross our border ILLEGALLY, welcome to the U.S. here is your green card.

Makes sense to me.
 
Yeah..but the people who come here and VISIT can't vote!
If you make illegals somewhat legal, you have appeased the hispanics who CAN vote.
 
dont you guys use brains!

Yes , goverment is going to give Greencard for everyone!

Before you reply or start threat you should read and study what is the news or issue about!

This board is full of idiots already!
 
One way to get rid of them!

US should require that everyone who works here, legally!

Should know how to speak english, or at least try to study it!

It is amazing where this country has gone, the more south you go, you dont always survive with english language!

Green Cards and the issue what president was dealing with has no direct connections. Working visas and green card , so called permanent residence card is totally different thing! Yes working visa might be way to get green card in no less than 3 years, but hopefully the person is worth of it in 3 years!

Otherway to solve problem is to but all those people who are able to work and are receiving money from social security office, stop giving them money , but them work. There is lots of work in this country and many unemployed people, problem is that people are picky about what they want to do!

I dont say that people who are sick or too old to work should not get help, but there is plenty of so called homeless people and poor people, who could do the job!
 
I will agree with the folks that Bush is off his rocker, legalizing illegal behaviour is not the way. We all know, he is trying to appease the Hispanic voters to win the re-election, well, that should not sit well with the non hispanic voters, at least I hope not. Ex Governor Davis tried something similar is CA, that got repealed really fast, remember the drivers license debacle.

One could argue, that acces to illegals keeps the wages down. Perhaps the job would be filled by people if the wages were as required by law, by people, I mean legally employabel in the US. Of course, that would be bad for business, having to pay a liveable wage.
 
Huncowboy,

$15000 on immigration lawyers? You must regretfully have a most complex case.
I too am a permenant resident card holder,married a US citizen and just payed the filing fees and waited too long just like most people who go the legal route. Unless you have "unusual" circumstances most individuals who marry a US citizen don't have to deal with and be shafted by immigration laywers to adjust their status

I'm sorry to hear that it's costing so much money.

In regards to a previous post regarding an influx of foreign pilots getting green cards and further diluting pilot pay, I sincerely believe that there aren't too many illegals skipping the border with an FAA ATP and a 1000 hours turbine PIC in their pocket!

Although my personal politics are right of center George Bush is definately off his rocker on this plan- a blatant kissing ass of the hispanic voting bloc.
 
TheDogs,

Actually it is more than $15k. My case is a routine labor case. The market price for it would be around $6k without the application for citizenship. But my employer insisted on using a "good" attorney who has been their immigration attorney for over 10 years. I did protest at first but I had nothing to pay as the $15k was picked up by my employer. However they only took over the expenses up until the point you actually meet all the conditions and you become eligible to apply for your GC. That is pretty much the standard for most employers. I cashed out close to $6k for the GC application to the same lawyer because after doing everything with him, I felt it was better not to transfer my case to a different one. I have already made my mind up that if I will ever get the GC I will come back to this guy once I will be eligible for citizenship. That will probably cost another $2-3k for the two of us. So my total will be around $23-24k of which my share will be around $8-9k.

However you are right, you can do the whole thing by yourself. But the complexity of a labor case compared to a marriage case is much higher. And as long you marry and it is not a fake marriage there is no Yes or No. You will become a permanent resident unless you divorce too soon. But if you are a labor case you are frightened to death to make a mistake because than your case can be thrown back to square one and you can start over again which means you just lost anywhere between 2-5 years. So 90% gets a lawyer and there are plenty bad ones.

People are even frightened to change address because BCIS has a tendency to lose track of applicants. It is like being frozen. What I will never understand about this waiting game is that I bet 90% of the applicants (especially labor cases) would be willing to cash out big $$ to get priority handling. I know I would. That money would let BCIS hire more officers. But they don’t do this, they rather process applications with receipt dates of April 2001 right now. Probably it would give the message that you can buy your citizenship, which you can if you have money to invest in the amount of $500,000-$1,000,000 depending on the state. I always thought the US needs more jobs so I would have been glad to pay like $20k in addition to get everything done within 6 months as it is meant to be, but I don’t have $500k.
 
Huncowboy,

You are indeed correct a labor certification case is a whole different can of worms and a laywer to handle such a case is wise if regretfully expensive.
As far as citizenship is concerned when you finally get your green card and meet the requirements for citizenship that process will be a lot more straight forward.

In my own circumstances I already meet the eligibility requirements for US citizenship, once I get the money together to pay for the filing fees I will submit my application and go through the process sans laywer.

I have heard that the BCIS tries to complete citizenship applications in about 6 months (yeah right!), best of luck in such a trying process.
 

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