Greed Greed Greed

[Bally]

I know, I did not use spell check...


No disrespect to General Lee, but his attitude illustrates shear greed and a significant reason the airline industry is in shambles.

An airline analyst in the Wall Street Journal characterized the Delta pilot group as "having a noose around the Company's neck".

Perhaps it is my Midwest work ethic upbringing, but I would feel like a failure if my airline was loosing millions of dollars per quarter and I was characterized as having a noose around the Company's neck.

Everytime we get a JetBlue jumpseater on our carrier, the pilot seems to be so excited about being apart of a thus far growing successful enterprise. To me, that would be a great environment to work in.

Can you imagine retiring as a 30 year Captain at Delta, United, or US Air, and after a lifetime career, looking back after your last flight and seeing that your company is either bankrupt or on the verge? I would view this as a personal failure.

Conversely, can you imagine a thirty year pilot ending his career at a company such as SWA who is able to look back and say "when I began here, we had 5 jets flying in one state, now we have 400 with service all over the country... What a great way to end a career.

It is great to see pilots at companies such Jetblue, SWA, Frontier, etc. who take pride in their companies and are excited and willing to do what ever it takes to help make the company or venture suceed.

I cannot think of anything worse that working at an airline where the talk on the flightdeck is us versus them, where negativity dominates the air.

My pay is much less than my piers at Delta. Nevertheless, I think I earn a great income, my union has done a great job for us and seems to be sane and balanced.

I view my compensation package as only a part of the pie. I get so much satisfaction working for an airline whose managment I respect, and I take personal pride in thinking that mabey in some small way, I am playing a part in its sucess.

I flew six legs yesturday and was tired as a dog at the end of a long day. Nonetheless, drinking a cold one at the end of the day felt great; knowing that I was paid a "fair" wage and we made money for the company!!!

I kind of feel sorry for General Lee. What a life to soley focus on what's in it for me, and have little regard for a company that has provided a livelyhood for so many years is the enemy.

Folks like General Lee are from the old school, whose thinking and actions seem so void of personal respect and pride.

 

[dixieflyer]

General,

I dont know if you handle is in reference to the car on the Dukes of Hazard or Gen. Lee, the commander of the Army of Virgina. However if I were you I would take Nathan Bedford Forrest's approach to this guy. "Get there first with the most."

 

[Mr Zog]

I think you should read a couple of books before you make these accusations as to the problem with the airline industry. Do yourself a favor and read "Flying the Line" and "Flying the Line 2". A must read for all pilot interested in flying professionally. As for the rest I wil let General Lee have fun with you. But suffice it to say, CEO's and Directors have gotten more ill gotten gains from the industry than any pilot group. Thes guys come in for two or three years and walk away with millions in there "golden parachute". The reason SWA is doing so well is the consistency in leadership at the top. Just my opinion. All yours General.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Gather round folks...this is gonna be a doozie.

Bally,

If you go back and read most of General's posts, you'll see he is very level headed, and not as selfish as you may think.

I'll bet he'll even take the high road when he responds to you.

 

[urflyingme?!]

could it be a little from both?

 

[MedFlyer]

I often disagree with the General and often spar with him, but even I must disagree with Bally.

I think the General does have a lot of personal pride and respect about working for Delta. In fact, sometimes I think that it is his pride that sometimes blinds him of the ugly realities that DL faces. I would never call the General greedy either....I can't even figure out where that comes from.

I don't see how you could ever blame people like the General (or any individual pilot ) for DL's problems. DL's problems stem mostly from 1) a brutally competitive industry with continually declining yields 2) poor and out-of-touch management and 3) an out of touch union that doesn't really listen to its membership (ALPA/DALPA).

 

[crashpad]

I think it was General Patton who said:
"There is nothing greater to make you feel alive than to have been shot at and missed".

 

[Gulfstream 200]

General does seem proud of his airline. Sometimes his posts can be downright laughable but his cause is admirable.

Good for him for getting everything he can, if anyone thinks for a moment there is any loyalty or real respect for you in this business anymore -- you are seriously kidding yourself. Look at the execs cash as they jump the ship at DAL and the rest....

F them, dont give up a penny General.

Somebody has to have a tiny bit of pride left to defend....

Sorry bally, life aint a Jimmy Buffett song when YOU and YOUR FAMILY are looking at a 40% pay cut.

 

[Rock]

Gee. Everyday I belong to the airline industry my job satisfaction takes another leap. I'm so proud to belong to a world whose slogan is "What's good for me is good for me and screw everyone else." So proud....

 

[General Lee]

Bally,

I really don't know who you are and we probably haven't ever met, so you probably only know me from these posts. If you had read my prior posts regarding concessions, you would see that I actually am FOR concessions--to an extent. I would give up more now than most senior guys, primarily because I am 39 and I WANT to have 21 more years with this company. I keep saying that we probably should give up something in the low 20% range---which is huge---probably $500-600 million a year just in straight wage cuts, not to mention other benies that we would probably give up also. The pilots at Delta did not CAUSE this huge debt problem (which includes buying Comair and ASA, building a BOS terminal, and a $2.3 BILLION stock buy back just before 9-11) We never caused any of those---and all I do is get a medical once a year, show up prepared to my checkride once a year, and try to give the folks in back a good landing every chance I get. That is what I do. I also pay big bucks (around $3000 last year 2003) to a union to make sure we don't get "taken"---and to protect myself in case of FAA problems. My union hired an independant investment bank and two well know economists to look into these debt problems, and find out what is appropriate. Then it goes to negotiations---and the company doesn't want to do it right now--even though we still have the door open. (is that greedy?) We all want to give what is necessary---and that is not greedy---it is SMART.

I guess you also haven't followed my opinions on our furloughs. I try to be an advocate and I will always try to help them---because once again, I feel LUCKY to have this job. That is not greedy---is it? I have opinions, and I voice them. I want to give the company some help---and our union will eventually if management decides to negotaite. That is SMART. And guess what bally? I make lots of money for this company---I try to give the passengers a smooth ride and always say goodbye to everyone. I am doing my job, and my union is doing it's job--to protect and to get a "fair" deal. I have plenty of pride, and I respect my job just as much as you do bally----it's just that I am fortunate to be paid more than you. You want that to change, don't you? Even the analysts are saying that Delta can't throw the bankruptcy card in there---and we have left the door open for them to come back to the table. Is that greedy? Go back and drink some more, and don't leave the gas fireplace on or your house my explode.... (yet another tip----hey, is that greedy? I just saved your life!)

Bye Bye--General Lee

PS--maybe some day you will be on my jumpseat and will figure out that I am just another guy who loves this business. I am willing to give some money up to stay in it---but not get taken for a ride....

 

[jetblue320]

I won't, and certainly don't need to come to General Lee's defense. I have a blast bantering back and forth with him on a lot of issues on this forum and over the past year or so, seem to have got to know this man. He rants and bashes jetBlue to no end, he agrees with some and then disagrees with maybe the same person...but I will say one thing...the man is not greedy by my, or anyone else's definition.


Of course, being a free country, Bally is entitled to his opinion, right or wrong.

C ya'll

 

[FL717]

The kick is up..... and the kick is good!!!

Nice reply General Lee.

While I will add that sometimes your LCC rants get old and tiresome, you have NEVER appeared greedy in your posts. I jumpseat on Delta alot, maybe I've met you, maybe not, but I'm willing to bet you are in the top 2% when it comes to pure class while on duty.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Bally:

Your current position is blank. What do you do? Honest now. I can't help but think this is flamebait.

 

[Browntothebone]

Bally,

After reading your post one word comes to mind, and that is naive. The definition that fits is "deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment".

The vast majority of pilots take great pride in their profession and want nothing less than the company they fly for to be vastly successful. However, when it comes down to it being a pilot is not a charitable endeavor. I trade hours for dollars, and I happen to like flying, end of story. Also, remember that you get paid not what you are worth, but what you are able to negotiate.

You can equate some of the emotions you describe to you suddenly finding out, after many years of marriage, that your wife is cheating on you. Don't tell me that you wouldn't be bitter.

It’s all part of capitalism and the pendulum swings slowly from side to side. In an ideal world unions wouldn’t be necessary either. By the way, pissing into the wind usually results in your shoes getting wet….

 

[CALformerCALX]

I know, I did not use spell check...


No disrespect to General Lee, but his attitude illustrates shear greed and a significant reason the airline industry is in shambles.

An airline analyst in the Wall Street Journal characterized the Delta pilot group as "having a noose around the Company's neck".

This shows how and why pilots continually lose ground to the outrageous salaries of those management teams your mid-west upbringing supports.

If General Lee leaves Delta he starts at the bottom both in pay and benefits. I wonder what exit package LEO just got and I wonder what his new employment contract provides when he shows up at the next job. Oh, yes, another Golden Parachute to set up an additonal three generations of his family. As always another idiot who thinks it is all labors fault.


I truly question your position or your knowledge of this industry.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I have a different opinion of Bally's attitude....more power to you.

One can go thru life finding the negative in everything. The more things you can be positive about, the happier you will be. Some may call it naive but so what. I'd rather be naive and happy than knowing it all and unhappy. Sometimes no matter how hard you try it boils down to good timing and what appears to be luck. I'd rather not fret about the road not taken.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I think we can all relate somewhat to the pride and satisfaction flying gives us - (even if we joke about it)

but bottom line is money simply DOES have a something to do with happiness once one passes the point of living with his/her parents.

A happy wife at home in a nice area with happy kids and comfortable life CONTRIBUTES to happiness...and these things don't come wthout money.

lets stop this "give up some salary so we can all fly proud" BULL$HIT.

 

[Rock]

Pride has very little to do with why I fly. My sister-in-law and her husband and four kids are one of the happiest families I know and they net about $45,000 a year. He works for a waste water treatment plant. I'm currently at the bottom of the seniority ladder at my airline and I don't begrudge my CEO a single dime of the money he makes. If he didn't do his job so well, I never could have been hired by his company. I do have a problem with people whose attitude is "Screw the company. I'm getting every dime I've got coming to me and then some because if I don't someone else will." That isn't everyone in this industry, but we've all flown with guys with that attitude. Usually, the people spouting that crap are the first guys to sign their correspondance with "fraternally yours". Well brother, if you really care for me, don't (*&% the company that signs my paycheck. I need them to be around for another 20 years because I can't afford to start all over at the bottom of the totem pole in another unionized airline.

Disclaimers....As far as I know, none of my comments apply to anyone in this forum, and yes, I am a dues paying ALPA member.

 

[Bally]

ok, someone brief me on how to use spell check. I failed spelling all through grammer school.

General Lee,

"Go back and drink some more, and don't leave the gas fireplace on or your house my explode.... (yet another tip----hey, is that greedy? I just saved your life!)"

Thanks for the tip General Lee... I do not need heat since I live in a warm climate, so I will just go on drinking.

Again, my post was not intended to be disrespectful. Your atitude however again illustrates the reason that companies like Delta are in so much trouble.

Each labor group is pointing fingers at each other. There seems to be no trust at all. Again, I am glad and blessed that I do not work in that environment. Way too much soap opera action for my taste. I also think after so long, you get to enjoy the drama.

Perhaps the non-trust was earned by all parties. Other posts here also demonstrate a very negative, me me me, and squeeze all you can, atitude. Either these folks were born that way, or burned by their compan(ies). If it is the later, I guess I can sort of understand. In any event, it would be sad to go though life with such a myopic view.

I agree that the actions and quality of managment has been sub-par, and in some cases criminal at many of the major airlines. The fall of companies such as Delta and United are complex. Responsability has to focus on manamgnent since after all, they have the final say on Contracts, and business strategy.


General Lee, flying the airplane, saying thanks to your pax, and getting a good landing is only a fraction of your responsability. For Delta to regain its health, you, manament, and all of the Delta work groups need to find a way to become a cohesive, on the same page group.

Perhaps the situation is like a blueberry stain on a white cotton cloth. No matter what you do, the stain is too deep and will never go away. If this is the case, buy JetBlue stock.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

yup, but the airline being around for your next 20 years has NOTHING to do with your loyalty. unfortunate but true.

the only people looking to stay 20 years at any airline are the pilots....sad but true.