Great Lakes Pay

[Lebowski]

Does GL have a training contract?

Yes. Although the Teamsters contract says that no pilot employee shall pay for training, including initial training, Great Lakes has made signing the training contract a requirement for employment. They side-step the Teamsters contract by not making you technically an employee (and not paying you) until you complete training. This is a double bonus for Great Lakes and not-so-much-of-a-double-bonus for you.

This is the same company that has made no headway in pay negotiations for years. In fact, I view this as an overall pay DECREASE for the pilot group that was done with no negotiation or union input. You all can decide for yourselves.

It's a 15-month contract, that is not pro-rated. Example: If you stay 11 months, they will sue you for the full amount. I've seen it happen, even to people who had been furloughed by Lakes more than once. If you think there's any chance that you might leave for any reason during the 15 months (17-18 months if you include training), then think seriously about this. Even if you don't think there's a chance that you would leave "early" you should talk to someone else who thought the same way and DID leave before the 15 months were up. There are many of those around.

Choose your employer carefully. There are plenty of places that are hiring with similar minimums that do not require a training contract.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Does GLA hire street captains. I was kinda lookin at it. And what is captain pay over there. Any rumors of growth, fleet plans, or new bases? Seems like props are goin away for passenger travel, hell even 50 seat rj's but lakes is stickin with it i see.

When my new-hire class started in October 2000, some of my classmates were supposed to be street captains. However, Lakes changed their policy on street captains just before we started initial and started requiring 300 hours on line before going to upgrade. Unless that's changed, I would suspect that's still the case. Apparently the washout rate was pretty bad for street captains, particularly those with no prior 121 experience.

As for the props going away, I don't see DV giving up the 1900's until the Feds make him. DV has said many times that RJ's just don't make economic sense and like it or not, there seems to be evidence to support his position. As for fleet expansion, there are a number of 1900D's available (is FMN still the big 1900D parking lot that it was a few years ago?), so if DV can land some more EAS routes, you might see some more 1900D's. Don't know if he'd pick up more EMB-120's, but if the situation was right, he might.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Seems like props are goin away for passenger travel, hell even 50 seat rj's but lakes is stickin with it i see.

Props will be around for a while. Bombardier seems to have some interested buyers for the Q-400.

 

[CFI2766]

Hey I was wondering how many days off / month do you average at Great Lakes, and are there flight benefits on united or frontier airlines? Thanks

 

[beech1900pilot]

You will get at least 10 days off a month. Expect to get that on reserves, line holders do get a few more off. Free flying on Frontier, not sure about United.

 

[OverspeedCowboy]

you can jumpseat free on anyone. there's flight priveleges with just about anyone in the U.S., but only F9 is completely free.

 

[kailuaboy]

Do you guys like your job at Great Lakes?

Im interested thats why.

 

[Lost]

Simply put, No.

 

[beech1900pilot]

The pay and schedules suck. But, the mighty beech is fun to fly and most the people there are cool.

 

[tattoo13]

About the training contract...It sucks HOWEVER it is completely legal. One lawyer has taken on around 10 ex lakers to fight it but has lost, havent heard about the appeal process. Several other laywers have looked at it and agree that they can collect training cost if you leave before the contract is up. It's real simple, do your research before you come here, if it's not for you dont put yourself through the all the problems

 

[kailuaboy]

Could you give us what your schedule is like?

 

[Lebowski]

About the training contract...It sucks HOWEVER it is completely legal. One lawyer has taken on around 10 ex lakers to fight it but has lost, havent heard about the appeal process. Several other laywers have looked at it and agree that they can collect training cost if you leave before the contract is up. It's real simple, do your research before you come here, if it's not for you dont put yourself through the all the problems

Hi Tatoo. Whether it is "completely legal" or not is a matter of debate and it continues to be argued in court through the appeals. I personally talked to about six lawyers about it. Half said it may be legal and half said it may not be. No one said it clearly was or wasn't.

It also depends on when you were hired. Myself and a few other guys interviewed and were offered jobs BEFORE there was a training contract and then had the contract more or less forced on us AFTER leaving other jobs to come to Great Lakes. Great Lakes did not disclose to me when I interviewed or was offered a job that a training contract would be required. Is that "completely legal"?

Furthermore, my class was told by union reps that the Teamster Contract, being a binding union contract, would trump the Training Contract. And the Teamsters contract specifically forbids Great Lakes from charging for initial training. Yet Great Lakes forces new hires to sign away their union protection before they can get a job and be protected by the union. The proverbial Catch-22. Is that "completely legal"?

These days, people who go to Great Lakes have some forewarning that there is going to be a training contract, which is the absolute least Lakes should do. I, on the other hand, was offered employment under a completely different set of expectations (i.e., no training contract) and still got sued. This is indicative of what kind of company Great Lakes is and it deserves consideration by anyone who wants to work there. People trying to break into the airline world tend to overlook the training contract, but there can be serious consequences down the road.

Regardless of whether the training contract is legal or not, you're right: it sucks. Do your homework before going to Great Lakes.

 

[Lost]

Schedules average 12-13 days off, more or less depending on the line, and somewhere in the mid 80's for credit. High Speeds (stand ups) run anywhere from 10-12 days off, around 50 hours of flying (75 hour credit). My line this month is 91 hours, 13 days off, w/ mostly 4 day trips and a couple of 2 day trips for example. Many commmuters bid the lines w/ 5day trips and bigger stretches of days off. The majority of the schedules start early the first day and finish late the last day; kind of a bummer for the commuters.

 

[CFI2766]

Whats the main reason that schedules suck? Just the same destinations get old, or what?

 

[Guitar Guy]

I've been gone from there for over a year but there were several reasons why schedules could "suck". Sometimes it was hard to commute, either at the beginning or end of a trip (early start or late end). Then there was the famous 24.1-hour break - it can be darn hard to commute home if you have 24 hours off.

And one of the biggest scheduling nightmares was junior-manning. You think you're finally going to go home until you call in range to DEN on that last leg and hear, "Oh, and the captain (or FO) needs to call crew scheduling when he (or she) gets in." That was NEVER good news.

Overall, if you go there with realistic expectations and can gut out the absurdly low pay, it's still one of the quickest ways to 121 PIC time. And you will get to fly in some very challenging areas with very bare-bones equipment.