Good luck Alaska Air Group.

[Singlecoil]

Now that you have declared nuclear war on both the Horizon and Alaska pilot groups by having company owned aircraft flown by non-union pilots, good luck recruiting pilots in the future.
Let's think about this for a minute. Retirements will commence again in December of 2012. Alaska has 13 aircraft being delivered from then to December of 2014, necessitating the addition of roughly 180 pilots. At least 100 pilots will be retiring in that interim from Alaska alone.

Air Group management has made it clear that they are now going to take advantage of the utter lack of scope agreements at Alaska and Horizon by outsourcing as many jobs as possible. Sure it is just 5 jets now, but there is absolutely nothing stopping them from making it 50 or 100. The shot across the bow is, "Force us to stop outsourcing!"

The next contract at Alaska will be signed in about the year 2016. Since management has made it clear that scope is going to be the issue in that contract, it will likely be for a wage freeze in exchange for scope, and that contract will be in effect for 7-8 years.

In two years, everybody is going to be hiring and most pilots will have multiple offers. Why would any pilot go to Alaska knowing that at best they will not get a raise until 2023 or if they get a raise before then, you probably gave up scope and might have your job outsourced? By the way, pensions are gone for new hires. Why wouldn't anyone go to FedEx, Southwest, Delta, United, UPS, even USAir before Alaska. USAir will have a contract before Alaska will and it will be for more money.

What does Alaska have to offer? A Seattle base? Newsflash: All of the allnighters are crewed out of Seattle. There are allnighters to MCO, MIA, three to GDL, and numerous ones from ANC to SEA and PDX. Allnighters to EWR and BOS will be returning as well. As a SEA based pilot, about 1/4 of the lines are allnighters. After 8+ years, all I can hold in SEA is an allnighter line or if I want weekends off, reserve.

Couple that with CSA's denying jumpseats to commuters and the fact that the reason that the Family Medical Leave Act had to be amended was because Alaska declared their pilots part-time workers and you get the picture.

It is truly a shame, but it is just business.
Good luck, Alaska. You are now a bottom-feeder.

 

[kingair1]

Deleted !!

 

[ualdriver]

Now that you have declared nuclear war on both the Horizon and Alaska pilot groups by having company owned aircraft flown by non-union pilots,

What is this?

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Same thing they are trying to do to us. Death to the major. We must kill this now. Bring all of your guys back, and start over. I think all of our 147 have received the call back, but if the company tries to outsource all of our domestic flying we will be in the same boat. They now have skywest flying their routes. Just like sitting the guppies. It's history repeating itself.

 

[Chief Pilot]

Singlecoil,

SPOT ON.

This all on the heels of a $262 million profit for the year. Apparently the company didn't make enough money with the way things are, so they have to outsource flying to the lowest bidder.

What scares me is that they talk about -400 retirements through 2014 as being only 8 aircraft. What about 2015? Are the other 20 odd planes going away in 2015 causing a net loss considering purchases of new -900ER's?

It appears to me that the company is moving toward "big" 737's, leaving a large gap between Horizon's Dash 8's and our -800's. How will they fill this gap? My guess is a Republic ERJ 195 or other 100 seater would look great with an Eskimo painted on the tail.

If anyone thinks that we are not simply a cost to be managed, they are truly deluding themselves. I am sorely disappointed that this appears to be the route management is taking right after our most profitable year in the company's history.

 

[CFIT]

Is there really no scope clause at AAG?

 

[igneousy2]

Is there really no scope clause at AAG?

We have a solid scope clause with Alaska Airlines. We have no scope clause with Alaska Air Group.

 

[flythere]

Is there really no scope clause at AAG?

got 2nd step trading though!!

 

[AK737FO]

Chief,

Of course nothing is set in stone, but I have heard from many sources (line maint, ANC BCP and check airman / flt ops guys) that the 400 fleet plan is for them ALL to be gone by 2016. There is an always present and persistant rumor that all 5 combis will be gone by 2014 because there is some special required odd-ball check that will be to expensive to do.
What will AAG do? A fleet of 800's, pig 900's and a half dozen 700's? That does not leave a lot of machinery that we can fly around the state of Alaska in. It does lend itself to the idea of Q400's running around the home state, the ANC "native" Alaska base shrinks, the ANC "Alaska Lite" Q400 base grows.

 

[CFIT]

What are the limits of regional jets that could fly for AAG, size and number?

 

[Old School 737]

None!!

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

What are the limits of regional jets that could fly for AAG, size and number?

Let's see:

Max seats < ∞
Max pounds < ∞
Max number < ∞

We'll have EMP-195s painted in Alaska Express before the pilot group gets a clue.



Wait, I suppose if the flying reduced some of the VSA, then it might cause a stir.

 

[Singlecoil]

What are the limits of regional jets that could fly for AAG, size and number?

I know it is hard to believe, but the above responses were not glib ones. Alaska pilots only have scope with Alaska Airlines, not Alaska Air Group. They could buy another airline or start another airline and transfer all flying to that company and Alaska pilots won't have any legal leg to stand on.
I wish I would have fully understood that and the difference in scope coverage at the more established airlines before I signed on to be outsourced.

If anyone applies here after that has been made clear, then it is on you.

Alaska already locked out the rampers, there is absolutely nothing from stopping them from doing the same with the pilots.

 

[tico]

Chief,

Of course nothing is set in stone, but I have heard from many sources (line maint, ANC BCP and check airman / flt ops guys) that the 400 fleet plan is for them ALL to be gone by 2016. There is an always present and persistant rumor that all 5 combis will be gone by 2014 because there is some special required odd-ball check that will be to expensive to do.
What will AAG do? A fleet of 800's, pig 900's and a half dozen 700's? That does not leave a lot of machinery that we can fly around the state of Alaska in. It does lend itself to the idea of Q400's running around the home state, the ANC "native" Alaska base shrinks, the ANC "Alaska Lite" Q400 base grows.

Well a bunch of guys will be happy because they can go home to SEA....ANC will be back to the way it was with the same 90 pilots from 11 years ago....When 99% of the etops flying goes to SEA, PDX and LAX, no more combi's and no more 400's...not much point in having an ANC base...it will become a co-terminal to SEA

 

[SRMairlines]

I know it is hard to believe, but the above responses were not glib ones. Alaska pilots only have scope with Alaska Airlines, not Alaska Air Group. They could buy another airline or start another airline and transfer all flying to that company and Alaska pilots won't have any legal leg to stand on.
I wish I would have fully understood that and the difference in scope coverage at the more established airlines before I signed on to be outsourced.

If anyone applies here after that has been made clear, then it is on you.

Alaska already locked out the rampers, there is absolutely nothing from stopping them from doing the same with the pilots.

!!! and the all knowing Alaska Senior Legends will be quick to point out what great careers the guys with "Solid" scope have had the last 10 years at United, Delta, American, USair, and NWA.

You cant fix ignorance at this pilot group. Supposedly SCOPE was a low ranking item of importance during the Wilson Polling.

We need it bad and it will take a strike to get it... unfortunately it will be impossible to convince the guys who once-upon-a-time upgraded in less than 5 years to walk the line.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Feet dragging in negotiations = merger on the horizon.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Feet dragging doesn't mean anything. When has any management rushed to get a deal done?

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Merger may be the best thing if the other company has scope.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Merger may be the best thing if the other company has scope.

Exactly what I was thinking. Of course we'll then be kvetching about the fences.

Just let me get back on property first.

 

[dashtrash]

Where's all the pilots hoping for a merger with Hawaiian? An Airgroup purchase/whipsaw is what we would get.

 

[NWaviator]

On another subject: Ran into a senior AS Capt in PDX and asked him if the pilot group was scared/nervious about Skywest coming in. He said "No, Horizon going to one plane is a great idea, i trust our management not give give SkyWest our flying, but I dont care if they give them your's (Horizons)."
Hope that is not the general feel of the pilot group. He may change his mind when SkyWest is operating a 100 seater for AS Express. Good news for that guys was he looked tha the was over 60 so he will be retiring soon.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I think you'll find that "opinion" is NOT characteristic of the AS pilot group. Perhaps this has FINALLY emphasized the importance of scope language to the rank and file. The message is not lost on the vast majority of AS pilots. QX's fight is OUR fight on this subject for exactly the reason you put forth.

 

[wscrj]

Actually Fubi, it was lost on the majority of AS pilots, which resulted in the overwhelming passage of the last contract...without ANY scope protections.

 

[Fubijaakr]

That's why I said FINALLY. Sometimes people have to get burned to understand what SHOULD be readily apparent to them.

 

[wscrj]

That's why I said FINALLY. Sometimes people have to get burned to understand what SHOULD be readily apparent to them.

Sad, but completely accurate. Unfortunately, many of those who should be learning this lesson have already overstayed their welcome, and will be gone (finally) by the time the full effect of this hits.

 

[Sioux115]

On another subject: Ran into a senior AS Capt in PDX and asked him if the pilot group was scared/nervious about Skywest coming in. He said "No, Horizon going to one plane is a great idea, i trust our management not give give SkyWest our flying, but I dont care if they give them your's (Horizons)."

The interesting part here is that alot of QX's rj flying is/was Alaska flying! Remember harmonization. SEA-LGB, PDX-SoCal, PDX-Bay area. Now it is SkyWest's flying and no AAG pilot is flying it!

 

[Chief Pilot]

AW: Alaska's World periodical

Harrison: Vice President / Planning and Revenue Management



AW: Virgin America just announced an aircraft order that will triple the size of its fleet. Delta may soon order up to 200 jets and other airlines are planning large aircraft orders, too. Are we being too conservative with our growth plans? And are you worried the industry will abandon its “capacity discipline?”

Harrison: Our order for 15 new aircraft should not be interpreted as a signal that we’re abandoning capacity discipline. It represents measured growth that enables us to meet demand in our core markets, continue to serve all the new markets we’ve started over the past 24 months, and generate additional revenue in certain high-volume and high-frequency markets with the larger-gauge 737-900ER.

We plan to take delivery of 26 aircraft and retire eight 737-400s by the end of 2014 for a net increase of 18 jets. That allows us to grow the airline a moderate 3 to 6 percent annually for the next four years. But we’ll only do this if economic conditions, our cost structure and fuel prices support that level of growth.

Are we being too conservative? Historically, the airline industry has suffered from overcapacity, which forces fares down as airlines try to fill empty seats. A lot of excess capacity was taken out of the market in the past two years, and analysts believe airlines now understand they have to maintain capacity discipline to remain profitable.

We need to be cautious at Alaska in light of an economy that’s growing slowly and all the changes at our competitors—the new Delta, the new United and even Southwest with its acquisition of AirTran and goals of flying to Hawaii and Alaska. If we over-reach on growth, we’ll start the downward spiral of cutting fares and capacity and furloughing employees. It’s one thing when the economy forces us to do this—it’s another when we do it to ourselves. We think our approach is right, but only time will tell.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember to read the fine print...or in this case the disclaimer buried in the middle of an obscure article.

Pure lawyer speak for "well...we will only take delivery of those additional airplanes if the pilots vote through a concessionary contract next time around. If not, we're only too happy to contract out more of Alaska's flying to regionals with no affiliation what-so-ever to AAG. Heck, if we don't come under fire from our latest "test" of five outsourced jets, the sky's the limit. Oh and BTW, don't even think about scope protection now or in the future. That's a "non-starter." You'd have to give up the whole Kit-n-Kaboodle for that. Remember, we have you pilots by the short hairs so if you even want to think about growth you'll play nice and give us what we want.

Here's to being perpetually junior.:beer:

 

[tico]

Seems like a great time for people to be sharpening resume, appearance and interview skills....When you all finally understand that "a successful future for Alaska Airlines" does not include you or any other labor employees, it makes it much easier to leave....Get on with it

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Seems like a great time for people to be sharpening resume, appearance and interview skills....When you all finally understand that "a successful future for Alaska Airlines" does not include you or any other labor employees, it makes it much easier to leave....Get on with it

So, Tico, where have you applied? I mean, you're obviously unhappy here. What are your top airlines to work for?

 

[Deadalus]

Hopefully as the older guys retire the IQ level will go up. The captains I've met at AK are some of the most arrogant morons in the industry. On the other hand I've been impressed by most of the FOs I've met that fly for AK.