Good Landing

[Typhoon1244]

What a lot of guys forget is that a "good landing" starts in the pattern and ends on a taxiway. If you float halfway down the strip to make a touchdown nobody can feel, and then have to slam on the brakes to make the next turn, banging everyone's head into the seat in front of them...that's not a good landing!

Oh, and if you put the main wheels down feather-soft, then drop the nosegear like a ton of wet manure...that's not a good landing either!

'Course that's just my opinion.

One thing is certain: you can make the greatest landing ever experienced by man, and only one in eight passengers will actually compliment you on it!

 

[Vicar]

Sorry for being ignorant here but can't help it


So if the nose drops, basically it's not good landing?

From what flywithastick said - effective wheel braking - isn't it suppose to be avoided then... remember hearing something like...wears off the breaks, reducing its shell life thus not very economic or something?

Thanks for all your replys...
Thanks alot

Vicar

 

[Jeff G]

One thing is certain: you can make the greatest landing ever experienced by man, and only one in eight passengers will actually compliment you on it!

You got that right. Not that long ago I made one of those "crowd pleasers" and not one of 162 passengers said a word. It was so good I didn't know we were down until the spoilers deployed. Only the crew noticed. But wouldn't you know it, I make an average thumper and half the plane seems to have a compliment (and not in irony, either). I'll never figure that out.

 

[flywithastick]

So if the nose drops, basically it's not good landing?

I wouldn't say that. Navy pilots pretty well slam the nose down every time, but can make perfect landings, catching that 3 wire. Depends on the plane, runway conditions, weather, AC loading and maybe your mood.

effective wheel braking - isn't it suppose to be avoided then... remember hearing something like...wears off the breaks, reducing its shell life thus not very economic or something?

Servicing brakes costs money. if you can save brake life, you save $$. my comments were from a light GA perspective. But I've seen fighters landed this way. Hold the nose high as long as possible. It's free braking.

Airliners and business type jets have spoilers and thrust reversers. So they just need to get the nosewheel down sometime before coming in with the reverse thrust, rather than flying along with the nose in the air trying to slow down. maybe someone who flies this equipment will comment.

 

[dsee8driver]

Good landing..

On a DC8 a good landing is a firm lading on the touchdown zone. A so called smooth landing on the 8 can take more runway and cause the spoilers NOT to deploy on rear wheel spinnup therefore delaying spoiler deployment untll FO wakes up and manually applies it or the nose gear touches down. Some guys, to try and smooth out the landing and land in touchdown zone, dive below the glideslope, which increases speed, (unless you spool down engines which is a no, no) which increases distance when you flare dues to extra speed. Also, unless you have some excessive crab or are very comfortable with the airplane, you keep the crab and touch down. Trying to kick the crab out at low altitude can, if not executed properly, cause a wing dip and a pod strike which can come with as little as 8 degrees of bank if on speed. If your approach is flat or fast the chances of hitting a pod greatly increases.

At Fine Air, on the Super Quiet DC8's, the reversers AND spoilers would not deploy UNTIL the nosegear came down. So trying to smooth a landing or use aerodynamic braking severely increased your landing distance.

 

[dsee8driver]

LOL

The 60 series are loud. 70's not too bad compared to others.

 

[waka]

I read once that on a Boeing 377 (I believe), the preferred landing attitude was nosewheel hits first. Can anyone elaborate on why?

 

[Typhoon1244]

I read once that on a Boeing 377 (I believe), the preferred landing attitude was nosewheel hits first.

Not bloody likely. Never flew a Stratocruiser...but on every airplane I've ever heard of with tricylce gear, the nosegear is always the weakest. Remember, the mission of the nosegear is mostly directional control. It's the mainwheels that support the lion's share of the aircraft's weight.

Stability would be a problem too. Touch down on the nose first, and you're now driving a 150,000 pound wheelbarrow with lousy aerodynamic characteristics!

I've seen films of B-29A's landing--they've got almost exactly the same gear as the '377--and they were landing the usual way: mains first, then nose. They do approach dramatically nose-low, though, sort of like the "slatless" CRJ's. (Due to the Smurf-like qualities of the CRJ's main gear, they are often landed nosegear first. It's not pretty...)

 

[waka]

I am well aware of the theory behind tricycle gear and landing with such. I too believe that landing nosewheel first is highly unusual. This is why I posted. My original question asked if anyone can elaborate on why the Boeing 377 is landed nosewheel first. Avbug?

(When I said "I believe", I wasn't sure it was the 377 or another airplane, now I am sure.)

 

[A Squared]

Waka,

I think that typhoon may have been politely suggesting that you may have read incorrect information, or perhaps misunderstood what you read. I see that you now are "sure" that it you have it right. Perhaps you could explain what makes you so sure? Maybe there's something going on I haven't heard of, so I'll keep an open mind, but I would think that it's extrordinarily unlikely that a 145,000 lb transport would be properly landed on it's nosewheel. Anyway, I'm interested to know what it is you have read about landing the 377.


Regards

 

[Typhoon1244]

My original question asked if anyone can elaborate on why the Boeing 377 is landed nosewheel first. Avbug?

Sorry pal, but not even your hero Avbug is going to be able to answer this one...because there aren't any tricycle-gear fixed-wing aircraft that are meant to be landed nosewheel first. What would be the point?

Where did you read this, exactly?

 

[BradG]

I like the ones where you come in right on speed, slowly bleed out the power, and have to look outside to see if your down or not. Not saying it happens often, at least to me, but its nice when it does.

brad

 

[slapstick]

it's a good one for the CFI when the student panics at 5 feet, yanks up on the nose, then shoves it down and shuts their eyes... then the CFI takes over at the last second and squeezes out a greaser, all the while saying things like, "Okay, you're making progress, you'll be soloed in no time."

 

[waka]

A-squared,

I disagree that Typhoon was speaking politely. In fact, I detected some thinly veiled condescension and some attitude. I may not be high on the experience ladder, but I believe that one can reasonably assume that someone at my experience level doesn't need an explanation on the physics of tricycle gear. If he believed that I mis-read something or read incorrect info, then he should have said so.

I never meant that I was "sure that I was right" I meant that I was now sure that it was the 377 that I read about. I'll have to search for the source,(I think it was some coffee table book called "Propliners"). The information might have been incorrect but I am sure that it did say that because I had to look at it more than once to believe my eyes.


Typhoon1244,

If Avbug is my "hero" (as you said) then your ego is your hero. "Sorry pal", just because you don't know about it doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't exist.

 

[A Squared]

I suppose that you'd have to define exactly what "preferred" means. My question is; preferred by whom? I can tell you from experience that the DC-6 "prefers" to land nose wheel first, especially at light gross weights. It's up to the pilots to convince it not to, as the chief pilot, maintenence department, and all others concerned "prefer" that it doesn't land nosewheel first.

I guess I'd take anything read in a coffee table book with a pretty large grain of salt. They are usually written by people who are enthusiastic about airplanes, but not necessarilly very knowledgeable. I've seen a lot of inaccuracies in books like that.

regards