Good Community College Pilot Programs?

[Doubleo6point9]

Metro State College of Denver is a good choice as someone mentioned earlier. If you're in state, it only costs about 1200 a semester at 16 credit hours and it has fairly good aviation program with some great classes such as their BE-1900D turboprop class.

What I think would work best though is to major in something else aside from Aviation and minor in their aviation program so that you have something else to fall back on incase the aviation field doesn't work out so well for you.

 

[Jimmy V.]

Hi Guys!

I never thought I would post regarding this topic. My father retired earlier this summer from Scandinavia Airlines Systems (SAS) he was based in Stockholm, Sweden his entire career. He, along with the majority of the pilots does not have a college degree. It is not a requirement at SAS, but still they fly the same equipment that the majors in the U.S operate. My dad flew the next generation 737's and the Airbus 319-21. I am not going to make an argument for or against a degree here but I do find it intereseting that a degree is such a big deal here and then in Europe employers really do not care about it. After all if they are all doing the same job.

Jimmy

 

[Vik]

Its just another requirement to limit the size of the hiring pool b/c there are too many pilots in the U.S. looking for jobs. Easiest way to make a cut is to require a 4yr degree.

Hi Guys!

I never thought I would post regarding this topic. My father retired earlier this summer from Scandinavia Airlines Systems (SAS) he was based in Stockholm, Sweden his entire career. He, along with the majority of the pilots does not have a college degree. It is not a requirement at SAS, but still they fly the same equipment that the majors in the U.S operate. My dad flew the next generation 737's and the Airbus 319-21. I am not going to make an argument for or against a degree here but I do find it intereseting that a degree is such a big deal here and then in Europe employers really do not care about it. After all if they are all doing the same job.

Jimmy

 

[bobbysamd]

European pilot hiring

I do find it intereseting that a degree is such a big deal here and then in Europe employers really do not care about it. After all if they are all doing the same job.

On the other hand, European airlines operate differently. For example, Alitialia and Lufthansa. These airlines look for individuals who might have potential. They send these people to their own flight schools (or to a contract provider, such as FlightSafety) and train them their way at their expense. Some of these trainees may have attended to college and some may have not. Their training is intense and focused with no moments wasted. They go on the line with about 300-500 hours, fully prepared to do their jobs. It is similar to military flight training.

Compare it to the American system, where American airlines do not hire and train their pilots from zero time. You have to obtain your own initial training at your expense and build experience before airlines will consider you. The two systems are different.

 

[pilotyip]

Difference in Europe

The Europeans recognize that a pilot is a skilled worked, like a machinist, or auto mechanic, and in Europe skilled workers go through an apprenticeship program. That is the basis of pilot training in Europe. In Europe there is a different path for knowledge workers that leads to University Training. In the US the value of a four-year degree varies from highly marketable i.e. Mechanical Engineering degree from the U of Mich., to a degree with little or no market value, i.e. Women’s Studies from Bumblebee State. For a pilot to pursue a degree with little market value in pursuit of a skilled worker position is not necessary. According to Air Inc, there are 167 out of 173 airlines hiring that do not require a 4-year college degree.

 

[pilotyip]

For Vic

"Its just another requirement to limit the size of the hiring pool b/c there are too many pilots in the U.S. looking for jobs. Easiest way to make a cut is to require a 4yr degree".

Your assumption is misguided, in the US almost everyone trying to become a professional has a college degree. To cut the pool down by 5% by eliminating the non 4-yr degreed pilots would do little to make pilot jobs more available. There has always been a large pool of pilots looking for flying jobs since the end of WWII. What happens when hiring picks up, companies redefine their competitive minimums to expand the pool. Then flight time, degree, and other nice to have things go by the way side and allow the company to dip deeper into the pool. This is in the process of occurring right now, leading up to the hiring boom of June 2007.

 

[bobbysamd]

It's baaaaaack!

According to Air Inc, there are 167 out of 173 airlines hiring that do not require a 4-year college degree.

Aside from the Kit Darby pablum/sophistry aspect of it, those who have a degree will still stand a better chance of being hired at these places, Yip, and at every other place, than those who will not.

No matter in what field in which you have your degree, as long as it is from an accredited college it has marketable value. At the very least, it lets you apply for jobs in any field that either requires or prefers a college degree.

 

[pilotyip]

Bobby explain again

Why are some airlines hiring pilots without degrees in front of pilots with degrees, I am talking SWA, AirTran, Spirit, JB? No one has splained that one to me yet.

 

[bobbysamd]

Why are some airlines hiring pilots without degrees in front of pilots with degrees, I am talking SWA, AirTran, Spirit, JB? No one has splained that one to me yet.

How do you know that for sure? What about the other airlines? In any event, no one has said categorically that the degree is the silver hiring bullet, but it still qualifies you for any job and is still far and away ahead of high school only.

There are exceptions to every rule, but it's dangerous and extremely irresponsible to advocate "exception" over "rule."

Get the degree. Enough said.

 

[pilotyip]

95% will listen to Bobby

5% will make it without the 4-yr degree

 

[bobbysamd]

Arguing exception

5% will make it without the 4-yr degree

Those are extremely long odds. That means that most without will not. Once again, "exception." Your odds are clearly better if you are the "rule," as covered extensively in this thread above.

 

[mayday1]

Yip, why is it you try to convince and persuade people to NOT get their degree? For the sake of argument, I'll even concede that you don't NEED one for a professional flying career (although, we're all in agreement that it certainly helps, and adds nicely to a resume).

But, it's odd to be making an argument against further education. Just a couple of thoughts:
- never met anyone who regretted going to college and getting a degree;
- a degree has never closed doors (in any industry); only opens them;
- "knowledege is power" - education, advanced learning, etc. is important and can only help people develop;
- getting a degree later in life is tough - life becomes more complex, and your comments that "fly for a while, see if you like, then get a degree if you don't" are not good guidance.
- everyone I've talked with who is in school later in life greatly regret not getting their degree sooner (or after high school). I've never spoken to anyone who said, "this is great, working a full time job and/or supporting a family, and going to school at night was the best choice."
- and the 4 year degree (read 4 YEARS) is a good chunk of time, money, effort, to have already under your belt, and not something you need to tackle later in life, or if you decide a professional pilot career is not your thing.

Anyway, I just don't understand your advice to folks.. discouraging college education to those entering a very volatile industry is not wise.

 

[jimpilot]

I am a better, safer and more mature pilot because of my degree. So there is at least one pilot who feels that way.

 

[bobbysamd]

It's the "TJ PIC," stupid . . . . .

Yip, why is it you try to convince and persuade people to NOT get their degree?

Yip believes that if flying airplanes is all one wants to do, than one should get started sooner rather than later. Especially to get a leg up on building that all-important "TJ PIC." He believes that after one builds "TJ PIC" that one can get one of those $100K/year jobs where college is not required to be hired. That, to me, sounds strangely close to flight school propaganda that advertises from zero time to regional airline pilot in nine months.

Yip has never answered the question as to how one gets the right kind of job to build "TJ PIC" without credentials. Moreover, he has failed to address the point that $100K jobs are not given to just anyone, that only top people with a solid background gets these jobs. Not someone with only a high school education to offer. If that were true and one needed only high school to land a $100K job no one would need to go college. We all know that is untrue.

There is plenty of time to fly after college. However, if a young person is really in a hurry, why can't he/she go to summer school while in high school and graduate in January instead of June? A really bright kid could take AP courses, start college in January with college credits already under his/her belt, push straight through summer school and graduate in three years or less. Then, with college out of the way, flying can begin, without the college burden hanging over him/her.

Not only is encouraging someone to enter a volatile industry without college unwise advice, it is misleading. There are impressionable teenagers who read this board who are considering aviation careers and who have planned to go to college because they feel they must. Telling them they really may not have to go to college to get a great, $100K aviation job is, at the very least, irresponsible.

 

[pilotyip]

Not me

I would expect nothing different from the college degree crowd. All the college degreed people feel everyone should be like them to be successful as they define sucessful. As posted eariler in this thread, I have nothing against a college degree. If someone wants to go to college more power to them. But it is not the only direction to the cockpit and to encourage a person to go to college when they have no interest in college is as much misdirection as I am accused of. Complete directions for an alternate career path are posted in the cargo thread.

 

[pilotyip]

high School only

"If that were true and one needed only high school to land a $100K job no one would need to go college. We all know that is untrue."

It is true if no pilot went to college then all pilots being hired by the airlines would not have a 4-yr degree. The airlines would still fill their cockpits. Flying an airplane is a skilled position, you can learn it without English, Humanities, Natural Science, and other college core material. It has nothing to do with flying an airplane and we all know that. The post on the differences with European training addresses that. Does college make you mature maybe, but no guarantees?

 

[Sunnfun]

The post on the differences with European training addresses that.

Unfortunately most european countries don't recognize pilot training as any kind of job training. That's why Loss of License Insurance is almost mandatory for an airline pilot there (Actually most Airlines actually pay for their pilots LoL Insurance). If you loose your medical, you have nothing. :-/

 

[bobbysamd]

Waaa, waa, waaa, I don't wanna go to college, I wanna be a pilot

[T]o encourage a person to go to college when they have no interest in college is as much misdirection as I am accused of.

It is not misdirection in any way. Sometimes, in life, there are things you might not want to do but things you have to do to achieve a goal. Meaning, maybe someone wanting to be a professional pilot might not want to go to college and/or have no interest in going to college, but when he/she sees that his/her job competition are college people he/she realizes that practicality and pragmatism trumps "want" and "don't wanna" and he/she realizes that he/she has to go to college.

By the way, Yip, with your Bachelor's and Master's degrees, aren't you part of the "college degree crowd?"

 

[mayday1]

If flying doesn't work out for someone, getting a decent job with no experience in the field or formal education is pretty tough these days. For this reason alone, you should encourage people who are interested in professional flying to go to school. It's that necessary "evil" - you know, knowledge, education, more fully developed communication and presentation skills, broader exposure to different disciplines and topics, etc.