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Goldman Sachs warned oil could reach $105 a barrel

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canyonblue

Everyone loves Southwest
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
2,314
LONDON — Oil markets have entered a "super-spike" period that could see 1970's-style price surges as high as $105 a barrel, investment bank Goldman Sachs said in a research report.

Goldman's Global Investment Research note also raised the bank's 2005 and 2006 New York Mercantile Exchange crude price forecasts to $50 and $55 respectively, from $41 and $40.

"We believe oil markets may have entered the early stages of what we have referred to as a "super spike" period — a multi-year trading band of oil prices high enough to meaningfully reduce energy consumption and recreate a spare capacity cushion only after which will lower energy prices return," Goldman's analysts wrote.

The analysts said resilient demand had led them to revise their super-spike range to $50-$105 per barrel from $50-$80 previously, noting strength in oil demand and economic growth in the United States and China especially.

Crude futures climbed more than $1 a barrel Thursday on the heels of rising prices for gasoline and heating oil futures the previous day.

Light, sweet crude on the New York Mercantile Exchange rose $1.21 to $55.20 a barrel in morning trading. Heating oil rose nearly 3 cents to $1.636 a gallon, while unleaded gasoline also rose about 3 cents to $1.627 a gallon.

U.S. crude oil futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange have averaged $50.03 per barrel so far in 2005.

Goldman Sachs is the biggest trader of energy derivatives, and its Goldman Sachs Commodities Index is a widely-watched barometer of energy and commodities prices.

Goldman pointed out thin spare capacity in the energy supply chain, and long response times for bringing on supply additions, as well as robust demand in the United States and in developing heavyweights China and India, despite the recent rapid increase in energy costs.

Goldman said the current oil market environment looked more like that seen in the 1970s — when oil prices spiked dramatically following the Arab oil embargoes on supply to the West and Iran's revolution.

High energy prices threw the world into recession, and triggered several years of declining oil demand.

Supply growth continued unabated and bolstered spare capacity, which in turn stabilized oil markets at lower prices — a phase of the market cycle that Goldman's researchers said had only just ended.

The bank also said its super-spike forecast range was conservative, noting declining U.S. gasoline spending as a proportion of GDP and consumer spending.

During 1980-1981, gasoline spending in the United States corresponded to an average 4.5 percent of GDP, 7.2 percent of consumer expenditures, and 6.2 percent of personal disposable income, Goldman said.

"Our new $50-$105 per bbl super spike range perhaps conservatively corresponds to gasoline spending in the United States that reaches 3.6 percent of forecasted GDP, 5.3 percent of consumer expenditures, and 5.0 percent of personal disposable income.

Goldman said that were it to assume gasoline spending needed to reach 1970s levels to destroy demand, its upside super-spike estimate would be $135 per barrel for New York crude.

"Perhaps the ultimate answer to high how oil prices need to go before demand destruction occurs is derived from knowing when American consumers will stop buying gas guzzling sport utility vehicles and instead seek fuel efficient alternatives.

"Based on our analysis of gasoline spending and the economy noted above, we estimate that U.S. gasoline prices may need to exceed $4 per gallon."
 
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Time to start drilling in Alaska. And wherever else we can get oil.
 
Everything would be irrelevant

If oil goes to $105 a barrel, quickly, that would add up to hyper inflation in the US economy as everything would cost significantly more, it would undoubtedly send the economy into a tailspin, effectively emptying the seats of even the "healthy" carriers. The US economy would be in a significant decline almost immediately as consumers are shocked with tremendously high prices for everything without pay increases. Look what $55 oil has done to transportation worker salaries, what do you think the working environment would be at $105?



canyonblue said:
Crude jumps on bullish view

By Sarah Turner, MarketWatch
Last Update: 10:49 AM ET March 31, 2005

DALLAS (MarketWatch) - May crude rallied Thursday morning on the New York Mercantile Exchange as Goldman Sachs warned oil could reach $105 a barrel.

The contract last stood at $55.20 a barrel, up 2.2 percent, or $1.21.

"The strength in oil demand and economic growth, especially in the United States and China, following a year of $40-$50 per barrel WTI oil has surprised us...The reason for this adjustment in view is that persistent high prices are improving the financial position of key oil exporting countries and could serve to keep potential revolution at bay," said analyst Arjun Murti, in a note to clients.

April heating oil, in its last day as the front month contract, rose 1.8 percent, or 2.84 cents, to $1.635 a gallon. May heating oil rose 2 percent, or 3.08 cents, to $1.595 a gallon.

April gasoline, also to expire at the close Thursday, rallied 1.8 percent, or 2.89 cents, to $1.625 a gallon. May gasoline added 1.8 percent, or 2.85 cents, to $1.645 a gallon.

May crude fell as low as $52.50 a barrel on Wednesday, with the slide precipitated by reports from the Energy Department and the American Petroleum Institute data that showed a healthy increase in U.S. crude supplies.

The Energy Department said crude supplies rose 5.4 million barrels for the week ended March 25.

Separately, the American Petroleum Institute said crude supplies were up 2.6 million barrels, while gasoline inventories fell 1.9 million barrels and distillate supplies were lower by 639,000 barrels.

The Energy Department also reported that gasoline inventories fell 2.9 million barrels and distillate supplies dropped 1.1 million barrels.

"Crude oil got a dose of reality yesterday with another much bigger than expected build, but then the funds didn't step in to grab profits and sellers simply disappeared at the end of the day pushing prices back up," noted Kevin Kerr president of Kerr Trading International.

May natural gas followed crude higher and was last trading at $7.61 per million British thermal units, up 2 percent, or 15 cents.

The Energy Department said natural gas in storage fell 51 billion cubic feet for the week ended March 25.

Oil and gas stocks staged their own rally following the Goldman note. The Philadelphia Oil Service Index rose 2.6 percent to 138.67 points.
 
Can you imagine paying $6.00 for an orange at the grocery store.
 
At a $105 a barrel, we would probably see not only the US economy cave, but most of the world. The countries, who have driven up the oilprices, due to manafacturing demands and then shipping the products to the western world, ie China, would probable see a significant decline in exports and hence a reduced demand for oil.

Of course, the opposite could happen and China could see increased demands for the cheap products.

I think scenario one is more likley.
 
The fact that even at the record prices of gas, people still use it like crazy without regard to it's price. That in itself poses the problem, that OPEC can raise the cost, AND pass it on to the consumer who still uses it like crazy. If only that would work in the Airline industry.
 
Well, there is a liitle bit of change going on in peoples attitude. I believe I read somewhere, that sales of large SUVs is declining. If oil continues its climb, I think changes will accelerate.
 
I'm not sure how much this is hurting non-Americans..

the fall of the dollar to such lows... and since oil is priced in dollars..
I think non-Americans have been insulated from the price increases..

But $105 a barrel...

This is going to hurt..

I thought all the liberals said we invaded Iraq for oil..
Guess they were mistaken?
 
Lovely. Some bean counter at a Wall St. firm makes yet another speculation and everyone panicks. This is becoming a repeating nightmare.

The answer is not drilling in Alaska or anywhere else. A finite supply is just that...when it is gone it's gone. Then what do you do?

The answer is to immediately convene the best and brightest scientists from around the world (kind of like in the Manhattan Project), and have them come up with an alternative fuel source that is unlimited, clean burning and can be produced for pennies on the dollar. Hydrogen is the next step but the refining and storage processes have to be better.

Our clown government could help if it fostered a plan of conservation and big time research into advanced alternative fuels while at the same time implementing a sane energy policy that is not predicated on putting an oil rig on every open space or crafting sleazy deals behind closed doors between Cheney and greedy oil/coal corporate execs.
 
Gas is super expensive also in Europe, where most average people drive smaller cars (also due to less room for parking). Most European airlines pass on most of the fuel surcharges to the passengers also. $105 per barrel will hurt everyone, and then Saudia Arabia will probably become our next target--we will call it East Texas...



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
105$ -- who cares?

everyone will still fill up their Suburbans and Tahoes to the cost of $125/tankfull on thier way to that airport (alone in that huge SUV) to catch a roundtrip flight from NY-FL and back for $89.


:rolleyes: .
 
The idea of alternative fuels has been kicked around a lot in the past. The problem lies with the Big 3 carmakers and the oil companies.

Personally, I think if someone could develop a modification kit for existing vehicles and market a very inexpensive fuel to power them, a lot of money could be made.

But, what do I know. I jist flie areplanze.
 
I agree with DonVerita. We need alternative fuel for automobiles.

If this country can develop the nuclear bomb in basically the 4-5 years of WWII, we can develop alternative fuels for our cars to burn, we just need to have the desire to do it.

Trouble is, right now the desire isn't there.

If oil does go to $105 a barrel and people have to spend $125 per tank to fill their gas-guzzling suv, hopefully the "desire" will come around.
 
If oil price hits 105$ / barrel?

If oil price hits 105$/barrel I hope at that point airlines raises their tickets prices to respective level and thatway when oil price eventually goes down, airlines starts makes profits again!

My toughts!

I live in new york / new jersey area and I dont think that people needs to be able to fly out of lets say exsample NY to LA around 100$,I think around 300 $ one way would be reasonable price! I am almost sure that those people who needs to get there they would pay the price! It would still be cheap, if you compare alternative methods to travel. Thinking time/money/ ....
 
If oil hits that high, corporate aviation will slow down. How can corporate flight departments afford to pay for mid level management to fly a Citation X from TEB to SMO for $27,000 (with higher gas prices), when he/she could go on DL for $499 for a walk up fare for coach or $599 for first class. RJs will also dwindle because airlines will have to find larger planes and fill them to break even. IF United was paying $2700 a leg for fee per departure, and gas doubles in price, how could they make that up with just 50 seats? The more seats, the better chance you could spread out the costs among more passengers for that gas increase. Sure, fuel surcharges will help, but not with 50 seaters. That would make every seat on the 50 seater have to pay $400 or so each way to break even, and a LCC 717 would be charging $250 on the same route. The RJ would be a major money loser....(and empty)



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Steamships, steam locomotives, and horse-and-buggies. Oh wait, that's been tried. Plan B: Bomb Saudi Arabia!!
 
General Lee said:
If oil hits that high, corporate aviation will slow down. How can corporate flight departments afford to pay for mid level management to fly a Citation X from TEB to SMO for $27,000 (with higher gas prices), when he/she could go on DL for $499 for a walk up fare for coach or $599 for first class. RJs will also dwindle because airlines will have to find larger planes and fill them to break even. IF United was paying $2700 a leg for fee per departure, and gas doubles in price, how could they make that up with just 50 seats? The more seats, the better chance you could spread out the costs among more passengers for that gas increase. Sure, fuel surcharges will help, but not with 50 seaters. That would make every seat on the 50 seater have to pay $400 or so each way to break even, and a LCC 717 would be charging $250 on the same route. The RJ would be a major money loser....(and empty)

Bye Bye--General Lee

If oil goes that high, the US economy could easily be pushed into a recession. Overall travel would drop and most airlines would be in BK.
 
DonVerita said:
Lovely. Some bean counter at a Wall St. firm makes yet another speculation and everyone panicks. This is becoming a repeating nightmare.

The answer is not drilling in Alaska or anywhere else. A finite supply is just that...when it is gone it's gone. Then what do you do?

The answer is to immediately convene the best and brightest scientists from around the world (kind of like in the Manhattan Project), and have them come up with an alternative fuel source that is unlimited, clean burning and can be produced for pennies on the dollar. Hydrogen is the next step but the refining and storage processes have to be better.

Our clown government could help if it fostered a plan of conservation and big time research into advanced alternative fuels while at the same time implementing a sane energy policy that is not predicated on putting an oil rig on every open space or crafting sleazy deals behind closed doors between Cheney and greedy oil/coal corporate execs.

A-freaking-men!!!! Some sense on this board at last. Preserve the petro for things that need the portable energy (aircraft, etc) until technology catches up. There is no excuse to have a nation driving around in 5000+ pound SUVs when technology has already provided the alternatives, but it is sad that it will take such high fuel prices to bring those alternatives to market.
 
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General Lee said:
If oil hits that high, corporate aviation will slow down. How can corporate flight departments afford to pay for mid level management to fly a Citation X from TEB to SMO for $27,000 (with higher gas prices), when he/she could go on DL for $499 for a walk up fare for coach or $599 for first class. RJs will also dwindle because airlines will have to find larger planes and fill them to break even. IF United was paying $2700 a leg for fee per departure, and gas doubles in price, how could they make that up with just 50 seats? The more seats, the better chance you could spread out the costs among more passengers for that gas increase. Sure, fuel surcharges will help, but not with 50 seaters. That would make every seat on the 50 seater have to pay $400 or so each way to break even, and a LCC 717 would be charging $250 on the same route. The RJ would be a major money loser....(and empty)


Bye Bye--General Lee



So....high oil prices will slow corporate flying and put the execs back on Delta airlines??

General! - you're officially ready for a management job at a Legacy carrier!

:) .
 
Gulfstream 200 said:
So....high oil prices will slow corporate flying and put the execs back on Delta airlines??

General! - you're officially ready for a management job at a Legacy carrier!

:) .

If oil hit that high, how much extra would it cost you to fly your people around? Double the cost of fuel. Could a regular corporate flight department afford that? I doubt it. They would send every mid level manger back to the airlines, and only the CEO would fly the corporate jet. Sad but probably true. And hey, this is only if oil doubled. Relax chief.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

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