Gold Seal CFI

[newmei]

I understand that to be a Gold Seal CFI you must hold either insturment ground instructor or advanced ground instructor certificate. If I am a CFII what would be the point of having a instrument grnd instructor cert.??? Why would'nt a CFII be the same??? I can understand why you would want a advanced ground instructor cert., and this is the test I think I should take. Does this sound correct?

 

[FlyinBrian]

You are correct. If you are already a CFII, there is only one benefit you derive from having the IGI or AGI...

The ability to hold a gold seal instructor certificate.

I do not understand the logic of the requirement, but that's the feds for ya.

FlyinBrian
Gold Seal CFI CFII MEI

 

[newmei]

So I might as well just go for the AGI?.........Heck I need something to do over x-mas.
The way I figure it, its one more thing on a resume. (if they care about it!)
Thanks

 

[newmei]

Opps one more thing.......
What exactly is the procedure for getting the AGI after I take my written??? Where can I find this info??? I think that I recall hearing you need to do the 8710 and then take it to the FSDO.
Thanks

 

[FlyinBrian]

Again you are correct. Just fill out an 8710 and walk into the FSDO (Bring your test results of course). If you also have the pass rate, take 2 8710's and your personal student checkride record, and you can apply for the gold seal at the same time. (that's what I did.) The AGI is a piece of cake. As I'm sure you know, it's the same question bank as the CFI. I don't think anyone gives a rat's behind about whether or not you have a ground instructor certificate... But having the gold seal at least demonstrates that you take your job as a CFI seriously, and that you were at least reasonably successful at it.

 

[newmei]

So basically the cards that I have that have my students first and last names (no MI) and flight test pass date, and test name, I take those in and viola? Not a prob once I get 6 more. LOL, I only have 4 thus far.

 

[FlyinBrian]

I brought in an Excel spreadsheet with my students. That may be easier than the cards because I think they have to make a copy. They issue a temporary on the spot. I'm not sure if they verify your activity report or not before they issue the permanent cert. It was really very easy. Good Luck!

 

[bobbysamd]

Go read page 8 of AC 61-65D and you'll find out everything you need to know to get your Gold Seal CFI. I have/had one, but don't recall needing an AGI and/or IGI to get it. Apparently that is a recent requirement.

Brian is right that the two ground instructor writtens are cake, but you do need to study. Just get the ASA or Gleim books for CFI and Instrument to bone up for them.

Getting a Gold Seal is just like going to FSDO to renew based on activity. I always kept my pass/fail record in the back of my logbook. Bring your completed 8710. The OSI will look at your records and have your temporary typed up. It should be 100% painless. I renewed my CFI based on activity twice in Scottsdale, and the inspectors were extremely professional and very courteous.

Good luck!

 

[skydiverdriver]

One other advantage of the AGI/IGI certificates is that they don't expire. Just in case you want to teach ground school someday, and you let your CFI expire.

 

[newmei]

My question still is why do some people have both IGI and AGI, the only thing I can figure is they took the IGI test before the AGI test.....because from what I understand you can teach instrument with the AGI....???
Thanks

 

[bobbysamd]

AGI-IGI

I researched my FAA file and I believe I have the answer. I got my Basic Ground Instructor first. I took that written and the FOI written, took my Airman's Written Test Reports and an 8710 to FSDO, and was issued my BGI. A couple of years later, I took the IGI written, took it and an 8710 and was issued a ground instructor certificate with Advanced and Instrument ratings.

I don't believe you can teach instrument ground school legally with an AGI. That covers private and commercial ground and not instrument ground.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[FlyinBrian]

61.215(b) answers the question. Notice that an AGI can provide ground training for any certificate OR RATING issued under par 61, however, he can provide a reccomendation for a knowledge test for any certificate under 61. (Notice the absence of the word "rating.") son an AGI cannot reccomend someone for an instrument rating, but can legally provide required instruction.

 

[bobbysamd]

AGI privileges

That's a change from the old reg. I stand corrected.

 

[newmei]

So it is my understanding that AGI can provide any ground training and written recommendation, IGI not needed if you have AGI....AGI CAN teach instrument ground instruction and give written recommendations.
????
Confusing

 

[FlyinBrian]

NOt quite, the phraseology is really stupid. In fact, I would bet you may get different interpretations from different FSDO's. But the way I read it, the AGI can provide instruction for any certificate or rating, but can only make knowledge test recommmendations for certificates. i.e. Private, Commercial, and ATP. They could not make recommendations for additional ratings such as the instrument.

 

[newmei]

Which explains why such people like Martha King have IGI and AGI.

 

[FlyinBrian]

Not really, because Martha has a CFI and CFII which afford you the same priveleges... John and Martha are just into collecting certificates.

 

[Wiggums]

Related Question

This may sound pretty odd, but it's kind of related to this discussion. Once I sent a student on a checkride and never heard back from the student or examiner. Is there some kind of record at the FDSO that they can look at to determine if that student was a pass or fail?

 

[FlyinBrian]

What's up Wiggums. Hope those epaulets are comfy for ya! I don't know if the local FSDO has the records, but I think if you call OKC they should be able to help you out. (unless the student was really recent.)

 

[Obi-Wan]

Its fine to get extra stuff on your ticket, but be careful when you apply to an airline. I had friends who where CFI, CFII, MEI, AGI,IGI, Gold Seal,etc... and listed all this stuff on resumes when they applied to an airline. I have all the CFI ratings but chose not to pay for the extra test since I thaught it would be useless. In their particular case the interviewer started asking them all sorts of questions about fundemantals of instructing,etc... and since they had not studied the stuff for two years they did not remember any of it. If you are a career CFI it makes you look good to students who think you are better than the guy without it. In an airline interview it might look like you are padding your resume, since they know you only have to take the same test twice to get it. Now I'm not saying this will happen to everyone but be careful waving that goldseal around.

 

[Pilotadjuster]

AGI

Just took the AGI and CFI writtens last week; exactly the same questions, with the addition of 12 questions for the AGI test. Gleim has the same study book for both exams. If you already have CFI, all you need is test results, your CFI cert, picture ID and 8710. Takes about 10 minutes at the FSDO.

Difference as I understand it is that with the AGI you can instruct students other than your flight students in ground school. Otherwise you cannot give ground school to other students you are not flying with. Also--if you sign off your students for their checkrides under your AGI cert, if they bolo it doesn't count against your CFI (or so I am told). Of course, the student may be a bit upset if you send them off and they fail because you didn't adequetely prepare them...

PA

 

[MasterFly]

Question about Pass Rate

I'm wondering if sending a student for a self-examining Part 141 End-of-Course checkride counts as part of the demonstrated 80% to renew/get gold seal. If so, then I guess every student would be a pass, even if they fail on their first attempt, because it's a training course.

Also, is the required record just the student's name and date of checkride in your logbook? And will the FSDO accept estimations of dates, like within a week?

Thanks.

 

[FlyinBrian]

In response to Pilot Adjuster's post:

1.) A CFI can provide ground instruction to anybody, not just his flight students. see 61.93 governs instructor privleges, and there is no limitation on to whom an instructor may provide ground instruction. (I'm curious where you heard otherwise.)

2.) You cannot sign someone off for a checkride with a ground instructor certificate. (61.215)I believe it is true that if you sign someone off for a WRITTEN with your GI cert #, failures would count against your GI certificate.

 

[ms6073]

Re: Question about Pass Rate

I'm wondering if sending a student for a self-examining Part 141 End-of-Course checkride counts as part of the demonstrated 80% to renew/get gold seal. If so, then I guess every student would be a pass, even if they fail on their first attempt, because it's a training course.

Most part 141 training schools are required to maintain a set pass rate in order to continue to exercise self-examining status and for that reason the students end of course check rides pass/fail rate is documented to the FSDO. Now I am pretty sure that if the successful completion of the "stage check" results in the student signing a completed 8710, then the answer is yes - this counts as a pass. But if the student fails a performance measure or maneuver during the stage check the eaminer send him back to you for additional instruction, then that counts as a fail!

I also used an Excel spread sheet that I generated from my log book and indicated not only the student name, but the type of check ride and whether the student/pilot passed or failed to document an 80% or better pass rate when I applied for my gold seal back in the day!

 

[FlyinBrian]

In response to Masterfly:

I hate to start quoting regs again but 61.189(b)(2) requires that you keep a record of each person you endorse for a knowlege or practical test including the kind of test, the date and the result. Whatever you've been doing to satisfy this requirement should satisfy the FSDO. Many people keep this record in their logbook. I would recommend that you consolidate the info onto one document for the FSDO though. If you didn't record the date, the friendly folks at OKC airman certification may be able to help you retrieve the data. (I know they have it.) Just explain to them that your CFI records were lost/stolen/destroyed, and you're trying to reconstruct them, and I'd imagine they'd help you out. I'm not too sure if I'd go and apply for the gold seal without having the documentation that you're required by law to keep.... Not bustin' your butt, just offering advice. (My records were not perfect, but I spent some time getting them in shape before I went down to the FSDO.)

 

[newmei]

Ok so I got it in my mind to take the AGI, I have the Gleim book but I understand there are also helicopter and other questions on the test (not very many). Where do I find those??? I know Gleim tells you to not worry but I want to make a good grade.
Thanks

 

[bobbysamd]

141 recommendations

We were told to sign off students for 141 self-examining stage checks the same way as any Part 61 practical, so, therefore, I alway counted 141 tests as part of my pass/fail ratio (yep, a few of the little darlings FAILED ).

You really need to record your recommendations accurately per the regulation. Not only is it the correct thing to do but, otherwise, FSDO is likely to give you a very hard time if you try to renew based on activity. Take it from someone who knows. I kept scrupulous records of my recommendations in the back of my logbook, per regulations. I renewed twice with one FSDO and was treated courteously and professionally. I went to another FSDO in a different region but where my school was located. That FSDO gave me a VERY hard time and even threatened to 609 me, which was completely out of line. I was told later by a good friend who is an ASI that I should not have been treated that way.

One way to maintain records would be to ask your school records person for the copy of the 8710 you sign for your student (or make the copy yourself). But you really do need to follow the FAR to the letter.