Godless atheists, at it again!

[SATCFI]

By the way, my personal belief is that if you believe in God and try in good faith to lead your life in goodness, then you're looking at a good afterlife. Whether one is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, etc.

Fly2Scuba,

If you are a Christian do you not believe in the infallibility of the Bible? Does the Bible not say: "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (NIV John 14:6)

How can you reconcile what you said with what the Word says?

There are plenty of really good and nice people in Hell simply because they did not accept Christs free gift of salvation. We can never be good enough, or nice enough to our fellow man to earn our way into heaven. Salvation not gained by works, rather it is a gift.
John 4:16

 

[Typhoon1244]

How can you reconcile what you said with what the Word says?

Probably because Fly2Scuba realizes that a god who would condemn good people for being in the wrong church is not worthy of anyone's worship.

 

[Timebuilder]

Timebuilder, we've talked about this before. The Bible must be left out of any discussion of "God's" motivation. The Bible was written by humans with human interests and fears. It's printed on machines built by humans. It's translated, decorated, and marketed by humans. There is no evidence of divine inspiration. By definition, there can't be.

Yes, we've talked about this before, and I have opined that there is no "proof" by your standard to support your argument. My argument needs no "proof", since proof has been designed out of the equation by God. The argument rests on 2Timothy 3:16-17. If that is not true, then none of what Christains believe is true.

If, however, 2Timothy 3:16-17 is true, then all of what Christians believe is true, even if we are not able to grasp how a perfect scripture was inspired into the souls and minds of men, carried in a strict oral tradition until comitted to paper, and preserved for us to rely upon today.

We don't have to be able to understand something in order for that thing to have the quality of objective truth.

What's needed here is a discussion of things you have seen, felt, smelled, heard, and touched...or intuited, for that matter. To say that "God" exists because the Bible says so is like saying Bokonon exists because Kurt Vonnegut says so.

Once again, this argument is only true if we have only the limited senses of Man to determine the truth of this assertion. God says that we have more, and that we are to walk by faith, and not by sight for now. If we are talking about Kurt, you are correct. If we are talking about God, then you must rely on His Word. Vonnegut is just an author of some books. God is the author of everything.

...my personal belief is that if you believe in God and try in good faith to lead your life in goodness, then you're looking at a good afterlife. Whether one is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, etc.

The Bible says that this wonderful idea is incorrect.

And Fly2Scuba, you're the first Christian I've encountered who justified their belief without having to lean on the human Bible.

If you are a Christian in this age, you have only the Bible to support your concept of salvation. There is no "human Bible," only the Holy Bible. Without the Bible, you have no knowlege of Him, His plan of salvation, His teachings, in short, nothing. You can't just take the part of the Bible and say "I like this part, so I'll call myself a Christian." If you accept the role of Christ in your life, you must therefore accept His Word.

You can't have one without the other.

No Bible, no Christ.

Know Bible, know Christ.

Probably because Fly2Scuba realizes that a god who would condemn good people for being in the wrong church is not worthy of anyone's worship.

Unfortunately, neither you nor I get to set up this structure of law, doctrine, belief, or the benefit or punishment associated with either adherance or rejection of the teaching. Only God gets to do that. Is he condeming "good" people? Really? By whose standard? Yours? Only God has the plan, and He has communicated it in His Word. That's the whole story in a nutshell. God does not care what church you are in, as long as you are following Him. What determines if you are following Him? His teachings. Where do you find them? In the Bible.

There is no escaping the plan of salvation as told to us in the Bible. If you don't like it there will be a price to be paid for that insolence. Only you can decide if that is a price that you are willing to pay for your ability to retain your human arrogance.

Actually, only a God who provides a plan of salvation is worthy of everyone's worship.

 

[slide33]

There are plenty of really good and nice people in Hell simply because they did not accept Christs free gift of salvation.

Dear SATCFI,

Where can I go and get qualified to judge who goes to hell and who doesn't? From your posts, you seem to have this qualification. I think it could be a useful thing to have.

If you are a Christian in this age, you have only the Bible to support your concept of salvation.

.

My argument needs no "proof", since proof has been designed out of the equation by God.

Wow. You gotta love the audacity of some people on this board. "If you do not believe what I believe - then you are WRONG" "If you do not believe what I was told by my parents since I was born - then you are WRONG"

If you want to believe a book written by humans a few millenia ago, with stories past on generation to generation, and take it as the only "truth" - then that's your right. But I really cannot believe the arrogance that some have to tell people that they're going to hell because "you don't believe what I believe".

Everyone on this board has the right to believe whatever they want. But not a one of us has the right to say who's going to hell, who's belief is right or wrong. There's only ONE who does, and he doesn't post on this board

If you don't like it there will be a price to be paid for that insolence. Only you can decide if that is a price that you are willing to pay for your ability to retain your human arrogance.

Wow. I guess some pilots do have a God-complex.

 

[Timebuilder]

I think I see what you are not getting, slide. You are confusing the communication of the message with the authoring of the message. They aren't the same. Let's take it step by step.

Where can I go and get qualified to judge who goes to hell and who doesn't? From your posts, you seem to have this qualification. I think it could be a useful thing to have.

Humans are not qualified to "judge." The Bible conveys the conditions and kind of judgement available, and asserts who will or will not be saved. Communicating that message does not mean the person who is communicating is "judging."

Wow. You gotta love the audacity of some people on this board. "If you do not believe what I believe - then you are WRONG" "If you do not believe what I was told by my parents since I was born - then you are WRONG"

Same idea here. You are wrong because the Bible says so, not because any human here has independently reached this conclusion. It has nothing to do with what anyone's parents have said. It has to do with what God has said. Big difference.

If you want to believe a book written by humans a few millenia ago, with stories past on generation to generation, and take it as the only "truth" - then that's your right.

If I want to read a book written by humans, I might read the Grimm fairy tales. The Bible was not written, in terms of its content, by Men. The Men only took down the words, first in their hearts, and then in written form, checked by the inspiration of God for correct content, as in 2Tim 3:16-17.

There are many truths, such as being able to say that the sun will rise tomorrow. That is so very likely that it is almost certain. Almost. However, God's truth is 100% certain. For Him, that truth is already a reality.

But I really cannot believe the arrogance that some have to tell people that they're going to hell because "you don't believe what I believe".

It isn't because I believe it. It is an objective truth that stands alone, and would continue to stand, even if I were to cease believing that truth. Get it?

Everyone on this board has the right to believe whatever they want. But not a one of us has the right to say who's going to hell, who's belief is right or wrong. There's only ONE who does, and he doesn't post on this board

He doesn't have to post here. He already gave us everything He wants us to know about Him, and did so perfectly, without error or omission. Not only is the authenticty stated in this passage, but also the reason:

3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
3:17
that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

So, it is good for all of those things, and as good as right from God's mouth. Inspiration means "God breathed."

Wow. I guess some pilots do have a God-complex.

That would only be true if I made all of this up. Sadly for some, I did not.

 

[slide33]

You are wrong because the Bible says so

Yes, I know. I am wrong because the Bible and Timebuilder say so.

Here's some other things the bible says:

God forbids killing - Ex 20:13
God commands killing - Ex 32:27

People choose not to come to Jesus - John 5:40
People can only come to Jesus if God wills it - John 6:44

Satan incites David to number the people - 1 Chron 21:1
God incites David to number the people - 2 Sam 24:1

Drinking alcohol is acceptable - Deuteronomy 14:26, John 2:7-11, 1 Timothy 5:23
Drinking alcohol is not acceptable - Proverbs 20:1, 23:31-34, Hosea 4:11

Jesus began ministry after John the Baptist is imprisoned - Mark 1:14,15,17
Jesus's began ministry whilst John was free and before imprisoned - John 1:28-29, 3:25-30

etc. etc.

ok. no more debating with zealots - bed time.

 

[Dizel8]

"Oh Cheer up Brian,you old bugger, it's not so bad you know. You come from nothing, you end up as nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!"

"Your death will stand as a landmark in the continuing struggle to liberate the parent land from the hands of the Roman Imperialist aggressors, excluding those concerned with drainage, medicine, roads, housing, education, viniculture, and any other Romans contributing to the welfare of Jews of both sexes and hermaphrodites. Signed on behalf of the P.F.J., etcetera.' And I'd just like to add, on a personal note, my own admiration for what you are doing for us, Brian, at what must be, after all, for you, a very difficult time."

 

[SATCFI]

Dear SATCFI,

Where can I go and get qualified to judge who goes to hell and who doesn't? From your posts, you seem to have this qualification. I think it could be a useful thing to have.

Slide 33,

I am not qualified to judge anyone. God is the only judge we need be concerned with. I am also not the one who says the only way to heaven is through Christ. Those were His words, not mine. I just happend to believe Him on this.

 

[SATCFI]

Yes, I know. I am wrong because the Bible and Timebuilder say so.

Here's some other things the bible says:

God forbids killing - Ex 20:13 (Actually says "Do not MURDER")
God commands killing - Ex 32:27

People choose not to come to Jesus - John 5:40 (As they also do today...God gave us free will."
People can only come to Jesus if God wills it - John 6:44 (This is the Holy Spirit...he will not come into to you until you ask him to.)

Satan incites David to number the people - 1 Chron 21:1
God incites David to number the people - 2 Sam 24:1

Drinking alcohol is acceptable - Deuteronomy 14:26, John 2:7-11, 1 Timothy 5:23
Drinking alcohol is not acceptable - Proverbs 20:1, 23:31-34, Hosea 4:11

Jesus began ministry after John the Baptist is imprisoned - Mark 1:14,15,17
Jesus's began ministry whilst John was free and before imprisoned - John 1:28-29, 3:25-30

etc. etc.

ok. no more debating with zealots - bed time.

 

[Timebuilder]

Slide, I am just the messenger. I'm not saying anything to you on this topic, other than was is said to me. It is the Great Commission being delivered that you don't like.

I think that, to this day, I have yet to start one of these threads. I'm happy to meet the challenges, though.


You will only find what you think are inconsistencies if you don't study to find the meaning of scripture. Presently, this attitude fits your intent.