GO Cleared for take-off!!

[flyer172r]

So why then are these seperate:

DAL Holding, ASA, COMAIR
NWA Parent, NWA, MESBA
AMR, American, Eagle
CAL dba, ExpressJet (60%), CAL
U Group. USAirways, PSA, MidAtlantic
The Llst goes on and on....

They all get their funds for a/c from their parent company...

Did Delta start Comair a year before ASA's contract became amendable? Was money that Comair made used to start up ASA? Didn't think so. ASA and Comair were both up and running, completely independently, when Delta bought them. Of all the regionals you mentioned, none were started by their holding company to use against one that already existed. That's the difference between what you listed and the current TSA situation.

 

[flyer172r]

Well said.
The bottom line is that GJ will be staffed by mostly by furloughed mainline pilots with a good payscale once the contract is negotiated.

I challenged you on another thread to tell us where you keep coming up with this great info. on the ************************* payscale. You didn't do it then, care to do it now?

Oh wait, you said "once the contract is negotiated." Yeah, because we can accurately predict how good the pay rates are gonna be during negotiations. Especially since these days it takes years to negotiate a contract. So please, let us know where you keep getting this great information.

 

[fuelflow]

I challenged you on another thread to tell us where you keep coming up with this great info. on the ************************* payscale. You didn't do it then, care to do it now?

Oh wait, you said "once the contract is negotiated." Yeah, because we can accurately predict how good the pay rates are gonna be during negotiations. Especially since these days it takes years to negotiate a contract. So please, let us know where you keep getting this great information.

First off, the company's advertised "proposed" payscale is 2% higher than the payscale ALPA negotiated for Mesa. And that is their INITIAL offer. The pilots that worked on the certification process, as well as the rest of those who were recruited into the "initial cadre" had two requirements to start the airline:
- They would be unionized
- They would have a fair CBA and payscale

If either of those stipulations were dropped by GJ, then most of the pilots would abandon the project.

Now, my question is to you flyer - where do you get your information? Do you actually believe what TSA's MEC tells you? Have you talked to a GJ pilot? Have you talked to the Teamsters? If you don't believe us, talk to one of the TSA guys that have either gone or are going over. If I were you I would ask a lot of questions.

 

[SLFLYHI]

First off, the company's advertised "proposed" payscale is 2% higher than the payscale ALPA negotiated for Mesa. And that is their INITIAL offer. The pilots that worked on the certification process, as well as the rest of those who were recruited into the "initial cadre" had two requirements to start the airline:
- They would be unionized
- They would have a fair CBA and payscale

If either of those stipulations were dropped by GJ, then most of the pilots would abandon the project.

Now, my question is to you flyer - where do you get your information? Do you actually believe what TSA's MEC tells you? Have you talked to a GJ pilot? Have you talked to the Teamsters? If you don't believe us, talk to one of the TSA guys that have either gone or are going over. If I were you I would ask a lot of questions.

Ok, I have a question, why do you feel the need to take food off the table of a TSA pilot who has worked a helluva lot longer and harder at this job than you? Why do you feel it's right to cut another pilot's throat just to feed your own pathetic ego. Why is it ok for management to whipsaw groups within the same company, and what makes you think it won't happen to you down the road? Is your life so bad in whatever you're flying that it's worth stabbing another man and an entire company of pilots (Air Wisconsin) who are all more experienced than you just to fly a jet and wear a shiny uniform? You and all the blowjet pilots are clueless, greedy, insecure bastards. Good luck as you make your way through your career.

 

[fuelflow]

Ok, I have a question, why do you feel the need to take food off the table of a TSA pilot who has worked a helluva lot longer and harder at this job than you? Why do you feel it's right to cut another pilot's throat just to feed your own pathetic ego. Why is it ok for management to whipsaw groups within the same company, and what makes you think it won't happen to you down the road? Is your life so bad in whatever you're flying that it's worth stabbing another man and an entire company of pilots (Air Wisconsin) who are all more experienced than you just to fly a jet and wear a shiny uniform? You and all the blowjet pilots are clueless, greedy, insecure bastards. Good luck as you make your way through your career.

How the hell is anyone at GJ taking food of the table of a TSA pilot? We could say the same thing of TSA pilots taking flying from higher paid American Eagle, ACA, or the various wholly owned USAirways companies. The mainline pilots at GJ have had their throats cut by the regionals for the last several years. And remember - you are only cutting their throat if you are lowballing their price, which I don't think any pilot at GJ will do. I'm glad you are so wise mister 3000 hour first officer - most GJ pilots were flying bigger iron for bigger money while you were sqeezing your first pimples.

Like I said - get informed.

 

[KingKong2]

Is your life so bad in whatever you're flying that it's worth stabbing another man and an entire company of pilots (Air Wisconsin) who are all more experienced than you just to fly a jet and wear a shiny uniform?

So did not SkyWest, CHQ, and MESA stab the AirWisky and ACA guys in the back? Or, only the GJ's guys?

 

[Reebo]

The mainline pilots at GJ have had their throats cut by the regionals for the last several years. And remember - you are only cutting their throat if you are lowballing their price, which I don't think any pilot at GJ will do. I'm glad you are so wise mister 3000 hour first officer - most GJ pilots were flying bigger iron for bigger money while you were sqeezing your first pimples.

Like I said - get informed.

Flow, you are a joke. If you are so qualified, then why are you wasting your time at Blow Jet? Why are you and all of your mainline buddies so eager to fly a little 70 seat jet? If youre so special then why are you not flying for JetBlue, AirTran, Southwest, Fed Ex, or UPS? Maybe you were lucky and were hired quickly at a major. Now you are pissed cause all of your college buddies, who were not as fortunate as you, are low life regional captains while you cant find a job without any PIC time. Even if thats not the case, what about USA 3000, Polar/Atlas, Evergreen, Kalita, Gemini? Ever heard of Comair, ASA, Xpress Jet, Skywest, CHQ, Mesa, or even Trans States? ALL of these companies offer employmet without the label that a Blow Jet pilot will carry for life. Seems to me you had quite a few choices to make when you were furloughed, and you made a bad one. All you are doing now is adding years to your recall. You think this race to the bottom will stop if Blow Jet is allowed to succeed? I think its you who needs to get informed.

 

[DDpaysoff]

I have no idea how I can put this modestly. This is BS, and it won't last I promise. They may fly, but they will be faced with several challenges, they never saw coming. watch! Their first flight to logan or JFK will be interesting..........watch!

 

[DDpaysoff]

They will get an offer they can't refuse.

 

[flyer172r]

First off, the company's advertised "proposed" payscale is 2% higher than the payscale ALPA negotiated for Mesa. And that is their INITIAL offer. The pilots that worked on the certification process, as well as the rest of those who were recruited into the "initial cadre" had two requirements to start the airline:
- They would be unionized
- They would have a fair CBA and payscale

If either of those stipulations were dropped by GJ, then most of the pilots would abandon the project.

Now, my question is to you flyer - where do you get your information? Do you actually believe what TSA's MEC tells you? Have you talked to a GJ pilot? Have you talked to the Teamsters? If you don't believe us, talk to one of the TSA guys that have either gone or are going over. If I were you I would ask a lot of questions.

If it's their "advertised proposed payscale" where can we see it? If it's advertised it must mean it should be out there to find so other pilots can see the glory of going to GJ. I've had chances to talk to GJ pilots, but they're understandably stand-offish. If I were to talk to them I would ask why they are going to a carrier specifically created to hurt TSA in contract negotiations (I know you don't believe that to be true but think about what will happen a year from now), when there are other reputable carriers hiring that wouldn't bring the stigma of a psuedo-scab (note use of the prefix pseudo), and that have contracts already established so that they know what they're going to get instead of hoping TSA management plays ball with them. I'm sure most TSA pilots know how well that usually works out. I can appreciate pilots wanting to feed their families, but there are ways to do it that don't help bring down the industry.

And what has the TSA MEC told me that is so bad? That they want TSA pilots flying all their company's airplanes? What's wrong with that? It's called reciprocal loyalty on management's part, helping the people that have helped you over the years instead of fighting them at every turn. TSA management wants to grow the company, then fine. But why can't they use the pilots they already have?

It's called protecting your members' jobs, and it's what a union is for. Yes, ALPA has proven to have problems in that department, but I'm going to be optimistic and hope that this time it's different.

 

[arthompson]

Just as a note for the NWA anaology that was used. NWA has never owned Mesaba however they did own Pinnacle.

 

[Black Water Dog]

Kong
1. Our interpretations of the wording are pointless. It will come down to who has the best lawyer.

Scary, but probably true. Last I heard there was still some attempt at "negotiation" going on between management and ALPA. Does anyone know if the TSA MEC has gone ahead with the grievance?

 

[Black Water Dog]

Life at the bottom at tsa surrounded by 700 pilots who know what a piece of garbage you are will not be fun.

Since Trans States, TSA Holdings, and HoJet share the same building, same people, and probably the same paper clips and post-it notes, I can only guess that the management is going to shave more costs by having the TSA and Ho Jet pilots share the crew lounge. (Including the same dispatch release dot matrix printers whose ribbons are so worn out as to be see-through.) Won't THAT be a comfortbale arrangement! It would almost have been worth staying at Trans States for.

 

[Black Water Dog]

Do you know how much a GJ pilot makes? I have yet to see their pay rates yet?

So far, the only published rates have been those offered in a letter from TSA management to TSA pilots back in the spring. (April or early May, I can't recall exact date. I used my letter as toilet paper.) That offer (an extremely weak offer of low 50 seat rate plus $1.50 per hour, block only, 9 days off per month, and various other reductions of the TSA CBA) was posted in numerous places, including here. For those of you with a morbid curiousity of just how bad it was, do the search.

Is there a more recent binding/official comp plan you would be able to share with us?

 

[redbook]

How the hell is anyone at GJ taking food of the table of a TSA pilot? We could say the same thing of TSA pilots taking flying from higher paid American Eagle, ACA, or the various wholly owned USAirways companies. The mainline pilots at GJ have had their throats cut by the regionals for the last several years. And remember - you are only cutting their throat if you are lowballing their price, which I don't think any pilot at GJ will do. I'm glad you are so wise mister 3000 hour first officer - most GJ pilots were flying bigger iron for bigger money while you were sqeezing your first pimples.

Like I said - get informed.

You and KONG say nonsense nonstop...so I will keep repeating it for you...tsa pilots have been here for years, growing this airline and you are attempting to jump ahead of these people who have worked hard for years and whose families have beared the burden of their sacrifices. The millions of dollars to start g0jet has not been earned by g0jet pilots.Every pilot at tsa and here is INFORMED. We have the list with your names on it, your justifications and digging in your heels only further guarantees that you are well aware of the actions you taken. Thus, a staple, and a lifetime of payback are yours.

 

[KingKong2]

...tsa pilots have been here for years, growing this airline and you are attempting to jump ahead of these people who have worked hard for years and whose families have beared the burden of their sacrifices. The millions of dollars to start g0jet has not been earned by g0jet pilots.

Did your help earn the money that bought those 10 E-145s of American Eagle's?

Just a different battle a different day....This too will pass....

 

[redbook]

Did your help earn the money that bought those 10 E-145s of American Eagle's?

Just a different battle a different day....This too will pass....

Keep telling yourself that Dan, you bet your career on it. Ask the other guys in class what their exit strategy is. You must be pretty nervous with all the meetings between alpa and tsa management. What do you think they are discussing? Hmmmmm.

 

[ren]

Hey Redbook,




Curious. Who is "Dan" (Kong)? Does he work for Trans States? If so, PM me with his name, if you would. Thanks.

 

[Remington]

WalMart undercuts most vendors in every city they come into, and they can give you a product for cheaper. Are they scabs??
Do you go there?
So it's okay to support "scabs" of every other industry, but not yours?
It's called Captialism. Heard of it?
One of the ideals America was founded on.
Just curious....Who's struck work is G0JET5 flying?
Oh.

 

[pianoman]

I don't shop at Wal-Mart for that reason. Ever hear of just doing "the right thing?"

So many pilots piss me off. They sit there and quote scripture, love GWB, go to church and then screw over their fellow man. All the while wondering why they can't pay the bills on their salary.

Some "morality". More like hypocrisy.