Go airlines jumpseaters to HNL

[Dan Roman]

This is going to be controversial but I'm going to put it out there. Apparently Aloha is in a pretty precarious state and, while I loath to see AQ disappear and Go continue as an inter-island carrier, it might happen sooner than later. Go has brought out extra airplanes to HNL in case. It stands to reason that they will need extra crews too. If you get a Mesa jumpseater to Hawaii please take the time and talk to him and be sure he isn't travelling on company business to do temporary flying in Hawaii. This is a clear abuse of the jumpseat and it certainly fits JO's MO. I have no problem with Mesa pilots and I will gladly carry one on personal travel anytime. But it behooves all of us not to let Mesa undermine the interline jumpseat privalages by abusing it to save money for Mesa. All I'm suggesting is to takie a few minutes to talk to the pilot and assure yourself he is not travelling on company business.

 

[Getter]

Excellent Post!!!!

 

[Freight Dog]

Thanks Dan, but it's moot now. It's over.

Air Cargo and Contract Services to continue
ALOHA AIRLINES TO SHUT DOWN PASSENGER OPERATIONS AFTER
MARCH 31, 2008, ENDING A 61-YEAR TRADITION OF SERVICE TO HAWAII
HONOLULU – Aloha Airlines announced today that it will be shutting down its inter-island and
transpacific passenger flight operations. Aloha’s last day of operations will be Monday, March 31,
2008. On that day, Aloha will operate its schedule with the exception of flights from Hawaii to the West
Coast and flights from Orange County to Reno and Sacramento, and Oakland to Las Vegas.
Code-share partner United Airlines and other airlines are prepared to assist and accommodate Aloha’s
passengers who have been inconvenienced. For more information on United’s accommodation
options, contact United at 1-800-UNITED1 or www.united.com.
Passengers who do not wish to be re-accommodated by another airline should contact their travel
agent or credit card company to request a refund.
Effective immediately, Aloha will stop selling tickets for travel beyond March 31, 2008.
The shutdown of Aloha’s passenger operations will affect about 1,900 employees.
Aloha also announced that its air cargo and aviation services units will continue to operate as usual
while the U.S. Bankruptcy Court seeks bids from potential buyers. On March 27, 2008, Saltchuk
Resources, Inc., announced its intention to buy Aloha’s air cargo business.
“This is an incredibly dark day for Hawaii,” said David A. Banmiller, Aloha’s president and chief
executive officer. “Despite the groundswell of support from the community and our elected officials, we
simply ran out of time to find a qualified buyer or secure continued financing for our passenger
business. We had no choice but to take this action.
“We deeply regret the impact this will have on our dedicated employees who have made Aloha one of
the best operating airlines in the country.
“Aloha Airlines was founded in 1946 to give Hawaii’s people a choice in inter-island air transportation.
Unfortunately, unfair competition has succeeded in driving us out of business, bringing to an end a 61-
year-old company with a proud legacy of serving millions of travelers in the true spirit of Aloha.
”We realize that this comes as a devastating disappointment to our frequent flyers and our loyal
business partners who have supported this company for many, many years.”
###

 

[ferlo]

His point is absolutely NOT MOOT. If fact, it's more pertinent. MESA hires very low time guys. Many are probably unaware of the difference between Jumpseating for pleasure, and JS for company business. Make sure they all know.

 

[Getter]

His point is absolutely NOT MOOT. If fact, it's more pertinent. MESA hires very low time guys. Many are probably unaware of the difference between Jumpseating for pleasure, and JS for company business. Make sure they all know.

EXACTLY.

 

[jonjuan]

So one can no longer jumpseat to work? I understand it's controversial, however, Mesa pilots are ALPA union paying members. REZ or PCL-thoughts????

 

[motch]

I'll bite...

While I do not condone a jumpseat war on fellow UNION pilots, I will question the reason behind allowing a jumpseat to a pilot (union or not) who had a part in undermining and causing the demise of a fellow ALPA carrier.

At some point, pilots must be held accountable for their actions. If a pilot knowingly and willfully took (or takes) a position at GO knowing that J.O. has stated his goal to lose money in an effort to put another carrier out of business, than that pilot should not be awarded the privileges of a jumpseat.
Jumpseating is a PRIVILEGE under a union, negotiated through a union.

MESA Pilots going to work for GO should plan to live there... and I don't want to hear that they can't afford it. Then you don't take the job!

I know that this post will stir up the pot, but I am just saddened to hear that ALOHA is going the way of PAN AM, EASTERN and TWA just to name a few.

Again.. the jumpseat should be used to facilitate a commute home/work. Not to save a competing company the cost of transporting their pilots from one domicile to another, or to get back and forth to a PC/recurrent.

Game on~

 

[Beetle007]

I am also missing the argument about not being able to jumpseat to work?

As much as I hate what Mesa did to Aloha, it is a big can of worms to prevent ALPA pilots from jumpseating. Didn't the ALPA president have to sign off on the Mesa contract?

Although I am fully in favor of airlines not having jumpseat agreements with non-union airlines paying below industry standard wages.

 

[ASADFW7]

The difference is being sent on TDY and being asked to jumpseat to work instead of a company purchased ticket. Further for example if you are based in DFW and the company wants to send you to LAX to pick up a plane they will positive space you to do it. They do not ask you to jumpseat on your own to pick up a plane.

In my early freight dog days I was asked to jumpseat for work all the time.

 

[jonjuan]

I'll bite...

While I do not condone a jumpseat war on fellow UNION pilots, I will question the reason behind allowing a jumpseat to a pilot (union or not) who had a part in undermining and causing the demise of a fellow ALPA carrier.

At some point, pilots must be held accountable for their actions. If a pilot knowingly and willfully took (or takes) a position at GO knowing that J.O. has stated his goal to lose money in an effort to put another carrier out of business, than that pilot should not be awarded the privileges of a jumpseat.
Jumpseating is a PRIVILEGE under a union, negotiated through a union.

MESA Pilots going to work for GO should plan to live there... and I don't want to hear that they can't afford it. Then you don't take the job!

I know that this post will stir up the pot, but I am just saddened to hear that ALOHA is going the way of PAN AM, EASTERN and TWA just to name a few.

Again.. the jumpseat should be used to facilitate a commute home/work. Not to save a competing company the cost of transporting their pilots from one domicile to another, or to get back and forth to a PC/recurrent.

Game on~

OK, so what about AA moving into DAL to ultimately put out of business, Legend airlines 6 years ago? As soon as Legend was gone, AA left. How is this any different?

 

[Dan Roman]

The difference is being sent on TDY and being asked to jumpseat to work instead of a company purchased ticket. Further for example if you are based in DFW and the company wants to send you to LAX to pick up a plane they will positive space you to do it. They do not ask you to jumpseat on your own to pick up a plane.

In my early freight dog days I was asked to jumpseat for work all the time.

Thanks, that sums it up perfectly.

 

[MJ42]

OK, so what about AA moving into DAL to ultimately put out of business, Legend airlines 6 years ago? As soon as Legend was gone, AA left. How is this any different?

You guys are missing the point. Jumpseating to or from work is ok. Jumpseating for pleasure is ok. Jumpseating on company business when Mesa is obligated to BUY you a ticket is NOT ok.

I saw it first hand when a Mesa guy, which later said he was travel to audit a Mesa station, bumped a fellow commuter because he listed first (they were same priority). Lucky for me it was an airbus w/2 jumpseats and I listed before the Mesa pilot, I was able to commute home.

It's not just Mesa, a lot of young pilots don't understand the concept of the privilege. Some of these low timers think it's a right. They weren't around when jumpseating was not allowed.

Please guy's don't let your company take advantage of your inexperience. If they need you somewhere, they need to get you there by buying a ticket.

 

[motch]

OK, so what about AA moving into DAL to ultimately put out of business, Legend airlines 6 years ago? As soon as Legend was gone, AA left. How is this any different?

Well, I don't know anything about that. But I will ask.. did the CEO state that he was willing to lose money to put the competion out of business?
Also

AA was a Legacy and was not a start up like GO.
Was Legend a carrier with a long history?

 

[PCL_128]

So one can no longer jumpseat to work? I understand it's controversial, however, Mesa pilots are ALPA union paying members. REZ or PCL-thoughts????

If I understand the original poster correctly, then he's not talking about the usual commute to work. He's talking about that POS Orenstein trying to reposition crews to Hawaii that aren't usually based there to operate flights. That's company business, not personal business. If my company wants to TDY me somewhere, then they need to deadhead me there. I won't jumpseat for it, and neither should any Mesa pilot. If they do try, then CAs should educate them on why they aren't supposed to abuse the jumpseat in that manner, and deny them boarding. The jumpseat is never to be used for official company business except for line checks.

 

[motch]

Another question...

While I understand almost everyone within ALPA has jumpseat agreements with everyone else.
But here's the thing.

MESA and their jumpseat agreements were set up when MESA was only a feeder. Now MESA has a division called GO Airlines. Purely a stand alone carrier. Should a new jumpseat agreement be negotiated?

 

[MJ42]

Another question...

While I understand almost everyone within ALPA has jumpseat agreements with everyone else.
But here's the thing.

MESA and their jumpseat agreements were set up when MESA was only a feeder. Now MESA has a division called GO Airlines. Purely a stand alone carrier. Should a new jumpseat agreement be negotiated?

You may be reading too much into the original post.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

OK, so what about AA moving into DAL to ultimately put out of business, Legend airlines 6 years ago? As soon as Legend was gone, AA left. How is this any different?

Youre right General. It is no different and equally eggregious.

 

[PCL_128]

Another question...

While I understand almost everyone within ALPA has jumpseat agreements with everyone else.
But here's the thing.

MESA and their jumpseat agreements were set up when MESA was only a feeder. Now MESA has a division called GO Airlines. Purely a stand alone carrier. Should a new jumpseat agreement be negotiated?

If you think one should be renegotiated, then you should talk to your jumpseat chairman. I think it's ridiculous, though. The Mesa pilots aren't to blame for this.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

At some point, pilots must be held accountable for their actions. If a pilot knowingly and willfully took (or takes) a position at GO knowing that J.O. has stated his goal to lose money in an effort to put another carrier out of business, than that pilot should not be awarded the privileges of a jumpseat.
Jumpseating is a PRIVILEGE under a union, negotiated through a union.

MESA Pilots going to work for GO should plan to live there... and I don't want to hear that they can't afford it. Then you don't take the job!

Game on~

I don't think there's an idiot out there who would admit to taking a job to sink another carrier, especially if he or she is asking a captain for a ride on their jumpseat, but maybe you would, I don't know.

A pilot should plan to live at domicile, huh? May I ask if you have always lived at your domicile. What about those who you fly with? Do you deny the jumpseat to other pilots who commute to a place that has a high cost of living, like, say, New York, LA, San Fran? It stinks what happened to Aloha, but where was your support for them when go! went into business there? I don't remember seeing ALPA picketing or crying out injustice while they were out there.

I think the company management does have a say as to who rides on their jumpseat too. Don't turn this into a union war, Aloha and Mesa Air Group pilots are both card carrying ALPA members. You don't like what Mesa did, neither do I, but I'm not going to punish a pilot for what his management.

 

[Dan Roman]

You may be reading too much into the original post.

Thank you also, you are exactly right. I tried to make it clear (and at least some of you got it!) That I wasn't advocating turning down Mesa guys from your jumpseat. I thought I made it clear that I was only saying to be on the look out for Mesa MANAGEMENT abusing the interline jumpseat privalages by trying to get Mesa pilots to Hawaii for temporary duty at Go. Of course you can't be sure if the pilot lies to you, but in some cases you may be able to prevent jumpseat abuse by Mesa, not the individual pilot.
How can I be any clearer and how can anyone disagree? IT IS AN ILLEGAL MISUSE OF ALL OUR JUMPSEAT PRIVILAGES IF A COMPANY TELLS A PILOT TO USE SOMEONE ELSES JUMPSEAT ON COMPANY BUSINESS!