GM & Ford Flight Departments 86'd

[Gulfstream 200]

That is interesting, but I don't think JPM shutting down their Flt Ops and they took 55 Bill of taxpayer money. That is what I thought had a bit of irony. No uproar about that.

Remember the first round of money was forced on the banks - in an effort to unfreeze credit markets. Didnt work...some already have, and more to come, will be back for lots more.

The biggest banks are intertwined everywhere through the economy and around the world - look how many have been allowed to collapse - Merrill, Wachovia, Lehman, etc - and many of these were much larger in market cap than GM.

Im not defending the actions of banks - they did ******************** for me and my investments! - but to compare the auto makers to them? it's not really on the same situation. Fix the economy by backing the banks and credit will be there and people can go back to buying their SUVs that GM will keep pumping out. Lets face it, that wont change....Im guessing thats why 60% of those polled dont want to give autos money. I dont agree, I say throw them a lot - too many jobs at stake...lose some, not all. We are in survival mode.

Finance has cut hundreds of thousands of jobs - instantly - through failures, mergers, and mass layoffs. GM unions cry foul when 5,000 are let go. Give them 150K due to contract. Some banks wacked 60,000 people in a single swipe last month.....and those aren't just rich brokers - those are bank tellers, janitors, pilots, and mechanics.....and I can tell you they didnt get 150K like a headlight installer at GM.

Maybe we need to start a corporate pilot union.

 

[Raskal]

Remember the first round of money was forced on the banks - in an effort to unfreeze credit markets. Didnt work...some already have, and more to come, will be back for lots more.

The biggest banks are intertwined everywhere through the economy and around the world - look how many have been allowed to collapse - Merrill, Wachovia, Lehman, etc - and many of these were much larger in market cap than GM.

Im not defending the actions of banks - they did ******************** for me and my investments! - but to compare the auto makers to them? it's not really on the same situation. Fix the economy by backing the banks and credit will be there and people can go back to buying their SUVs that GM will keep pumping out. Lets face it, that wont change....Im guessing thats why 60% of those polled dont want to give autos money. I dont agree, I say throw them a lot - too many jobs at stake...lose some, not all. We are in survival mode.

Finance has cut hundreds of thousands of jobs - instantly - through failures, mergers, and mass layoffs. GM unions cry foul when 5,000 are let go. Give them 150K due to contract. Some banks wacked 60,000 people in a single swipe last month.....and those aren't just rich brokers - those are bank tellers, janitors, pilots, and mechanics.....and I can tell you they didnt get 150K like a headlight installer at GM.

Maybe we need to start a corporate pilot union.

A corporate pilot union? I like it, has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read I'm in a union now and all I can think of is my prior company reacting to the grievences our ALPA MEC files...the laughter would be heard for miles followed by an enormous kick in the ass (sometimes rightfully so).

The UAW is a mess of a union with what it has chosen to fight and what it refuses to give up. The jobs bank, which originated in the 80's to deal with job cuts from increasing the use of robotics and outsourcing, is not really a very good example. Overall there really isn't anyone in it right now not to mention it is being cut-as it should be. They will be taking concessions-they don't have a choice.

Now, to the banks. "Fix the economy by backing the banks and credit will be there...". Hmm. $300 billion given to the banks with NO STRINGS to free up credit. Did it work? Nope. So far all institutions receiving the cash have used it to prop up balance sheets and buy other banks. Lending is still frozen-the banks won't even lend to each other at the rates they should. You seem to think that the banks really have everyone's best interest at heart. They couldn't give a flying ******************** at a rolling doughnut about their customers or this country and you know that. They care about their stock price, just like every other financial institution, and that's the end of the caring. This is evidenced by their actions leading up to and during this recession. The government, since it just had to get involved, should've and hopefully will attatch conditions and ownership stakes to OUR money being taken. Right now we are doing nothing but giving briefcases full of unmarked cash to homeless heroin addicts in order to get them off drugs and not getting a receipt.

And you're right, we can't compare the banks and the automakers-the big three are asking for a loan, the banks are stealing the money where it will never be heard from again (well, at least you and I won't see it, but there are some who will...).

 

[Gulfstream 200]

A corporate pilot union? I like it, has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read I'm in a union now and all I can think of is my prior company reacting to the grievences our ALPA MEC files...the laughter would be heard for miles followed by an enormous kick in the ass (sometimes rightfully so).

I was joking with the Union idea....people may be dancing around admitting it - but break the auto union and you will see 99% public support for whatever money the little three want. Like it or not.

Oh and I agree - the little guy (you and me) is already screwed here - its not in the future, its here right now! Excess and prosperity are at a halt right now.

Oh well, what are ya gonna do. Be happy to be paying the bills and being healthy.

 

[semperfido]

Oh well, what are ya gonna do. Be happy to be paying the bills and being healthy.

of all the "stuff" on this board, this is probably the bottom line.

 

[xshuttlefa]

I dunno, not many?

Negotiation does involve two parties, though...

Oh, quite true. I don't blame one party. The UAW negotiated for it and the auto makers agreed to it. It (the Job Bank) was probably a stopgap measure for saving jobs from a previous crisis that was being kept alive. By both parties...

 

[Raskal]

I was joking with the Union idea....people may be dancing around admitting it - but break the auto union and you will see 99% public support for whatever money the little three want. Like it or not...

I know you were joking, it was funny.

Yup, we're screwed, but like you said-pay the bills and keep going.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

First off the bank mergers DO cause job cuts. I banked at LaSalle which was merged into Bank of America. Service there is in the toilet because BoA came in and cut so many jobs at the local branches, the lines are now obsurd. As for the loss of the Ford and GM flight departments. I personally know a Ford captain (now former) and he didn't see this coming. I have been updating my resume through him for quite some time trying to get a job there myself. But I guess it's 5 more years of reserve here instead, or a slim chance at flowthrough to Delta.

The extreme unpreparedness of the CEOs when they first went to congress was appaling. The grandstanding done by some of the southern senators was even more appaling. They are playing politics because they have some foreign assembly plants in their states. What they don't get is by killing off the domestic companies they are killing the suppliers too. The same ones that supply the southern foriegn brands. Not to mention the national security implications. Who do we turn to for the next world war 2? Kia, Sony, BMW, Citgo? Good luck with that.
We won't be a sleeping giant we are becoming a dying mouse.

 

[Quimby]

Of course, because banks are banks. CARS are CARS. Banks are bought, sold,merged all the time and most of the time it's seamless. People see the 55 billion for JPM as keeping their money safe, what's left of it. Outrageous, sure. But necessary. And it is to some extent.

People see GM getting bailed out in the form of that POS 1995 Oldsmobile they had that was in the shop all the time and really went bad after the warranty was up. They see it in the Chrysler minivan that had three transmissions in it in 60k miles. They see it in the Ford Expedition they bought when gas was cheap and 12mpg was awful but doable. Then when gas went to $4.00+/gal., they went back to the Ford dealer to buy something more efficient and found they had nothing comparable in size but more efficient to sell and they owed much more then their trade was worth.

Cars are emotional, many of us interact more with our cars then with our money. For some the car takes ALL of the money, so who cares about investing?

well said...

 

[F/O]

Good grief, the a-hole Republican senators that have Honda plants in their states (Shelby's one of them) need to just let GM acquire a few Honda jets to use and that should settle the argument....