Global 5000 Lands short in Carribean??

[P3-Adub]

Anyone know of this and where it may have happened?

 

[fatburger]

I overheard our chief of mx say that it was a new 5000 and it happened in St. Kitts. I didn't have time to get any details.

 

[wtrav8r]

Didn't a Global 5000 just eat it up in Canada recently too?

Yes, it was Hortons GLEX. It appears that it landed short also.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Pretty sure it was operated by Elite out of PIE.

 

[The_Russian]

How is that possible in St. Kitts? The terrain illusion on runway 7 makes you think you are too low. This usually results in a climb on short final followed by a long landing.

Were they landing on 25? I have only landed that way once and there is a nice little cliff there.

 

[luvu]

How is this possible.. Unless the aircraft runs out of gas and is a glider, I don't understand how a pilot can land short of a runway. But then, I have only been flying for 20 years. I have never been on final for a runway and thought to myself, "you know, that is a good looking piece of asphalt but the rocks and sand and grass immediately in front of it are sooooo tempting that I just can't resist."

 

[maximizer]

have you ever flown a big airplane into a short field. it can happen. i wouldn't throw stones in a glass house.

How is this possible.. Unless the aircraft runs out of gas and is a glider, I don't understand how a pilot can land short of a runway. But then, I have only been flying for 20 years. I have never been on final for a runway and thought to myself, "you know, that is a good looking piece of asphalt but the rocks and sand and grass immediately in front of it are sooooo tempting that I just can't resist."

 

[luvu]

And what would this have to do with a global 5000. this isn't a big airplane and St. Kitts isn't a small airfield.

 

[maximizer]

ok, i'll give you the point that it wasn't a short field. i was bugged by your initial comment. seemed a bit arrogant.

 

[Dinger]

What is the field length at St. Kitts? And what do you mean a GLEX 5000 isn't a big airplane....this is the corporate forum, isn't it? Compared to the airlines, nothing in corporate is BIG.....it's all relative.

As far as throwing stones in a glass house....I would seriously consider heeding that warning....it may not be the instance of landing short, but what happens if you pull some other boner move?......At 3200 hours, you really haven't been around the block, and you're not that cool!

 

[Wiggums]

There is no excuse to land short except for maybe some really freak windshear encounter. Modern aircraft such as the Global with provide vertical guidance to just about any runway. And it's not like you need to hit real early in the Global, that thing has Ref speeds as low as 95kts I thought.

 

[YankeeEcho]

Anyone know of this and where it may have happened?

Not St. Kitts - but the sister island of Nevis. Runway is only 3998 feet - not a good place for a Global. I've been into Nevis many times in a twin cessna (piston) when the runway was only 2000' - and, although they have lengthened it - it seems very questionable for a Global!

 

[timmay]

Same guys that ran into a Gulfstream on the ramp while taxiing. One year with the plane two accident/incidents. I wouldnt want to get that insurance bill next year.

 

[pair_of_pratts]

From another forum, details on the Canadian Global landing short. Pictures can be found in the thread (about half way down the page).

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=36682&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=25

_________

This was first flight without support pilot. 4800ft trip, 75 wide. Winds were 20G30. Max demo for Global is 29Kts. Aircraft delivered brand new 2 weeks ago. Pilots had less than 20 hrs in A/C.
________

Here are some eye witness details:

I was standing just abeam the threshold of the runway, because I knew the plane was coming in, and wanted to see this landing up close (not the
brightest thing I have ever done). Very windy day, ceiling about 600 to 900 feet.

The plane landed short by about 5 feet, at which point the ground sloped downward (a kind of berm). As a result, the main gear was driven up through the wings. The right gear hit first, such that the right wing hit the grass on the upwind side of the runway. I was standing on the downwind side, else I might not be here. I was about 10 feet from the edge of the runway at the point of first impact. Pieces of it hit me, that’s how close I was.

The aircraft is destroyed. I doubt it will ever fly again. Both engines continued running for a time after the aircraft came to a stop. Pat (my copilot) was the first onboard. He climbed aboard the right wing and
entered the cabin through the emergency exit to provide assistance. Mark Byrne was there seconds later, and called to Pat that the Emergency Lights
were still on. Since fuel was pouring from the left wing (which was slightly elevated where the aircraft rested) and probably from the right, Pat went back in to ensure that the captain had turned off all power and also shut off power to the emergency lights. At the request of the fire department, which was on the scene very quickly, I entered cockpit to ensure everything was off, and then the rear equipment bay to disconnect the main battery. I looked and looked, but couldn’t find it. I went back into the cabin to retrieve the Pilots Operating Handbook, which I thought would tell me where the main battery was. From the diagrams, it seemed that there was a battery in the nose and also one in the rear equipment bay, but I still couldn’t find it. Mark was able to force open a panel at the nose to disconnect the avionics battery. Then it occurred to me that you would know, and that I had your number in my cell phone. I never would have found it. The fire department was very relieved and very grateful.

I assisted in giving first aid to the most seriously injured, which was an interesting experience, since I had just completed a 2 day first aid/CPR course (MedAire). The only serious injuries were back injuries to the two pilots, although the captain also had nasty gash in his forehead. In the cockpit, I can see what put the big gash in the captains head: the red box which I think is the HUD. Tell your pilots to wear shoulder harnesses, and to cinch their seatbelts down tight. The first RH forward facing passenger seat appeared to have been dislodged. It may have been swiveled before the landing, bad idea. Glass everywhere in the galley. Passenger compartment was a shambles.

Very interesting day. Not sure when we will get out of here, because they have closed the airport until the TSB gets here.

Ron Joyce had surgery as a result and one of the pilots is still in Hospital CYHZ.

 

[AA717driver]

No excuse. You have only 20 hours in the airplane and you do a max performance (at or near X-wind limits AND minimum runway length...) landing?

FSI can teach you systems but they can't teach judgement. TC

 

[CALDC9]

From AIN:

Another Global 5000 Lands Just Short of Runway

By Jennifer Harrington

December 20, 2007
Accidents


A Bombardier Global 5000 landed short of a runway in the Caribbean islands on December 12 and sustained damage after hitting an airport perimeter fence. Eastern Caribbean Civil Aviation Authority (ECCAA) flight ops inspector Paul Delisle told AIN that the accident occurred at Vance W. Armory Airport on the island of Nevis and said there were no injuries to crew or passengers. A spokeswoman for the NTSB confirmed that the Safety Board “was aware of a situation…involving an airplane with the registration number N50DS.” She added that although the ECCAA has jurisdiction, the NTSB has offered to assist in the investigation. A spokesman for the FAA yesterday said that the owner of the airplane, Tampa, Fla.-based First Southeast Aviation, had not yet notified the FAA of the incident although the company is required to do so because it is a U.S.-registered airplane. An employee of First Southeast Aviation confirmed to AIN that the Global 5000 is registered to the company, but would not comment further. This is the second incident of a Global 5000 landing short of a runway since November. On November 11, a Global 5000 owned by Tim Hortons cofounder Ron Joyce landed short in Nova Scotia, Canada.

 

[Spooky 2]

No excuse. You have only 20 hours in the airplane and you do a max performance (at or near X-wind limits AND minimum runway length...) landing?

FSI can teach you systems but they can't teach judgement. TC

TC a lot of what you say is true but I'll bet a new Capt. over there at AA would be more than capable and willing to land the Mad Dog at some airports that may be in your system under similar conditions and circumstances. The fact that he/she had the benefit of a thorough IOE might have made the difference between and accident such as this and an otherwise safe landing under less than desireable conditions.

 

[kilroy]

No excuse. You have only 20 hours in the airplane and you do a max performance (at or near X-wind limits AND minimum runway length...) landing?

FSI can teach you systems but they can't teach judgement. TC

I have always been amazed that you can go thru a Sim school get a rating never see the airplane in the time you are being trained but as soon as you get the little piece of paper in hand you are set to go and fly the aircraft.

I wonder if there is any data on incidents and accidents with low time in type crews

 

[Spooky 2]

I have always been amazed that you can go thru a Sim school get a rating never see the airplane in the time you are being trained but as soon as you get the little piece of paper in hand you are set to go and fly the aircraft.

I wonder if there is any data on incidents and accidents with low time in type crews

I'm sure there is data somewhere but the fact is that the number must be extremely small if not ifintesimal. Properly trained pilots in Level D simulators typically are turned to line ops without the benefit of any real aircraft time. Then with a thorough IOE of twent-five hours or a reduced hours and a certain number of landings the pilot is released to high mins, ect. Usually if it is the pilots first Capt. slot, in a turbojet, he needs to be observed by the FAA. Various operational theaters can add time to the whole package, but the bottom line is minimum training, maximum effort, and good judgement need to be applied by all.

 

[AA717driver]

TC a lot of what you say is true but I'll bet a new Capt. over there at AA would be more than capable and willing to land the Mad Dog at some airports that may be in your system under similar conditions and circumstances. The fact that he/she had the benefit of a thorough IOE might have made the difference between and accident such as this and an otherwise safe landing under less than desireable conditions.

Spooky--I've always felt that the 25 hour IOE was wholly inadequate for someone with zero time in type. Even with the 70-100 hours required for CA upgrade at TWA, I had a couple of captains new to the DC9 let me do the landing (when I was over the 2,000 hour mark).

Even when I had over 500 hours in the GV, I never felt comfortable going into or out of CRQ (4800' w/ no overrun). All it takes is one thing to go wrong...

I'm guessing these guys might have fared better with less stacked against them. Just five-hundred feet more runway or ten knots less wind. Who knows. Hope they aren't hurt too bad and recover fully. TC