Glide path angle on a PAR approach?

[TriStar_drvr]

As a civilian trained pilot who regularly flies into military airfields, I have a question concerning PAR approaches. Is the standard 3 degree glidepath always used? Do Navy and Marine pilots use a steeper glidepath? My company uses Jeppesen charts, and no glidepath angle is listed on the charts. At one airfield, when the controller is calling "on glidepath" the PAPI will consistently indicate that we are above the glidepath.

Of course perhaps that PAPI is set to a glidepath angle shallower than three degrees, but our charts don't tell us that angle either.

Thanks for any help.

 

[scoreboard]

usually 3 deg. Could be anything, if you don't have the chart, ask, they can tell you. Usually NOT aligned with PAPI, VASI. I seem to remember the PAR glidpath is noted on the airfield chart 10-9 maybe on a jepps.

 

[VVJM265]

The PAR glideslope is not always coincedent with the PAPI/VASI/Ball. The glideslopes are listed in the front of the DOD approach plates or on the "radmin" link for the respective airport:

https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/index.cfm#term2

Good luck,
VVJM265

 

[TriStar_drvr]

Thanks for the info. I looked up a couple of airfields in question and found what I needed (and confirmed what I suspected).

 

[McGillicutty]

At NAS Jacksonville you're looking at about a 7-8 degree GS after the final controller gets done with his conversation with the bros in the shop and realizes you're "way" above glideslope.

 

[Fury220]

I had a PAR at KNFW a few months back that was so bad that the following comm took place as we went missed:

Me: "Final controller, confirm that you are NOT a rated PAR controller?"
Him: "Say again?"
Me: "Confirm PAR training in progess?"
Him: "Affirm."
Me: "Just checking...keep practicing."

No kidding...he was giving me 50 degree heading corrections at 2 miles from touchdown. I was going to call his supervisor after landing if he was a "rated" controller.

KNFW is usually pretty good, though. A really quality PAR approach with an experienced controller is really a thing of beauty.

 

[EA6BDriver]

The Canadians at Comox are the best:

"Your glideslope is excellent, perfect rate of descent..."

 

[firstthird]

Come on, how can you say that the Canadians are better than the Sicilians at Signella?

"You look good, don'ta toucha nothing."

 

[Russ]

On the glide, begin the slide, you have consent to touch the cement, make sure the Dunlops are dangling

As boring as PARs were to fly, they just as boring to do. I got my 10/month and no more. You have never done a PAR till you control a H2 helo from a 15 mile turn on doing 80Kts into a 20 Kt headwind.

 

[Check 6]

Rota Spain (Lear 35)

About 9 months ago while getting set up for a PAR at Rota, Spain (in good VMC) we were misidentified by the Rota PAR controller. He thought we were a C-130 that was on final, #2 behind us, even though we had a good Mode 3C. We had been vectored from the area of Seville, i.e. on a dogleg to final, not straight-in.

For training I was keeping my head in the cockpit. When I finally looked up we were north of RWY 27 by about a mile on the upwind, i.e. 1 mile north of the centerline. My partner just thought I was a little "rusty."

We had a few laughs with the Herky crew in ops. Sure glad it was VMC.

 

[VVJM265]

Check 6,
Don't ya miss flying in Europe...?
265

 

[Check 6]

Yes, but I don't miss flying through French airspace.

 

[VVJM265]

Yes, but I don't miss flying through French airspace.

Yea, but I do miss their accent (there's a thread about that somewhere).

No more visuals at the last minute from 6000' and a mile abeam like Napoli would give you either...

How's the job search going, btw?

Back on the PAR subject, one of the best Icontrollers I ever saw was at Larissa, GR. We broke at 125' right on C/L and on G/P. Gotta love that!

 

[Check 6]

Yes, they are good at Larissa, Northolt, and Akrotiri. I had a complete a/c failure going out of Akrotiri at night. Wx was 400 overcast, good visibility, but 40-50 degree crosswind at something like 30 G 40 kts.

The failure was climbing through about FL100. We probably lost the same systems you would lose on a C-26, i.e. went to partial panel with the peanut attitude gyro.

All we told the PAR/GCA controller was "declaring emergency, electrical failure, request vectors for no-gyro PAR."

This guy was cool. All he said was turn left to XXX and descend to XXX and acknowledge, then don't acknowledge further transmissions. This was at FL120.

We broke out on the center line at maybe 2 miles but of course the runway was at our 1:30 position with the cross wind.

Our next transmission was runway in sight, and he said the equipment was waiting for us.

I think he had his feet up on the counter, smoking a cigar, and a pint in his other hand the whole time. Gotta love those RAF controllers!

I rode back to Napoli in the back of another Lear with our pax and called it a day.

Still job hunting, but this is giving us time to get our home organized. Still unpacking boxes from the move. I think my wife bought out Italy!

 

[Huggyu2]

Ever get the "dirty talkdown" at a British base like Akrotiri? Quite fun!

 

[Check 6]

No, I don't know that term. Please educate me.

Thanks,