GEX IC Wannabe

[Cody_V]

Interested in aquiring a GEX type rating and becoming an IC pilot. I have a bunch of time in the CL-65 and I believe that will help market me. I don't have any real long haul, large corp jet experience, but than again where do you begin? I suppose sitting in the right seat for a while. I have the loan set and am ready to dive in. ANY HELP/ADVICE would be GREATLY appreciated as this is a new world I am about to enter. I live in South Florida and from my research is an excellent market for this kind of work.

Thanks a lot.

 

[SCT]

F-Bait.

 

[banned username 2]

ANY HELP/ADVICE would be GREATLY appreciated as this is a new world I am about to enter.

Save your money... A CL-65 is NOT a Global Express and nothing like it... Having a bunch of Regional experience will NOT make up for having zero Corporate/International experience...

Without Time in Type (and a significant amount at that) odds are you aren't going to get much business...

 

[skiandsurf]

Save your money... A CL-65 is NOT a Global Express and nothing like it... Having a bunch of Regional experience will NOT make up for having zero Corporate/International experience...

Without Time in Type (and a significant amount at that) odds are you aren't going to get much business...

Yeah, a CL65 is built by Bombardier and the Global is built by Bom...oh wait. I mean the CL65 has 2 engines mounted aft of ....I mean the CL65 only burns 100LL....oh, it burns Jet A ? Well since the CL65 holds 50 people and a FA and the Global only carries 13 people, it is too much airplane for you lowly regional pilot.

I met one of the Global Demo pilots. He was a Saab 340 FO at eagle, and he made the transition just fine.

The hardest part of the "airline to corporate" transition, is seeing all the waste of money. Airlines try to save, corporates try to spend.

 

[AerroMatt]

Save your money... A CL-65 is NOT a Global Express and nothing like it... Having a bunch of Regional experience will NOT make up for having zero Corporate/International experience...

Without Time in Type (and a significant amount at that) odds are you aren't going to get much business...

Lets boil this down to what it REALLY means: It ain't who ya know or who ya blow, its HOW ya blow WHO ya know!

 

[Brett Hull]

Yeah, a CL65 is built by Bombardier and the Global is built by Bom...oh wait. I mean the CL65 has 2 engines mounted aft of ....I mean the CL65 only burns 100LL....oh, it burns Jet A ? Well since the CL65 holds 50 people and a FA and the Global only carries 13 people, it is too much airplane for you lowly regional pilot.

I met one of the Global Demo pilots. He was a Saab 340 FO at eagle, and he made the transition just fine.

The hardest part of the "airline to corporate" transition, is seeing all the waste of money. Airlines try to save, corporates try to spend.

Having no international experience myself, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say flying 2.0 between KATL-KOMA is just a little different than flying 13+45 KHPN-RJAA darn near over the north pole. It may involve a little more than a type rating and jumping directly into the gear-swinging seat to fly 1/3 of the way around the world.

 

[banned username 2]

Having no international experience myself, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say flying 2.0 between KATL-KOMA is just a little different than flying 13+45 KHPN-RJAA darn near over the north pole. It may involve a little more than a type rating and jumping directly into the gear-swinging seat to fly 1/3 of the way around the world.

Exactly...

Typically, if a Corporation is going to use a Contract Pilot (I assume that is what he means by "IC" Pilot)... They want that Contract Pilot to have a significant amount of time in type as well as appropriate experience for the mission (i.e. International Experience)... Just having the type rating doesn't mean squat without the experience to back it up...

 

[AA717driver]

Having no international experience myself, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say flying 2.0 between KATL-KOMA is just a little different than flying 13+45 KHPN-RJAA darn near over the north pole. It may involve a little more than a type rating and jumping directly into the gear-swinging seat to fly 1/3 of the way around the world.

Bingo! We have a winner.

It's also about dealing with pax that hold the future of your career and your family's finances in his hands. There are no unions and you can't file a grievance WHEN (not if) you get hosed.

Like my friend said when I got this job: The flying's the easy part. That's not the half of it either...

Cody--That's not to say you can't make the transition. You just need to set your sights a little lower. There are several good threads here recently about making the transition from airline to corporate. It's a good place to start.TC

 

[skiandsurf]

Having no international experience myself, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say flying 2.0 between KATL-KOMA is just a little different than flying 13+45 KHPN-RJAA darn near over the north pole. It may involve a little more than a type rating and jumping directly into the gear-swinging seat to fly 1/3 of the way around the world.

I am sure that there is a few things to learn, but flying is flying. My friend went from Air Ambulance Helicopter to Global Express. Here we are talking a difference of low level, slow speeds, no co-pilot to high altitudes, fast speeds, and crew. When the RJ was new, most of us flew it as captain with no previous jet time. Again, flying is flying. There was a learning curve, but we all got thru it. Another friend of mine went from a CL65 to a Challenger jet, flying mostly international trips. Its flying.

 

[banned username 2]

I am sure that there is a few things to learn, but flying is flying. My friend went from Air Ambulance Helicopter to Global Express. Here we are talking a difference of low level, slow speeds, no co-pilot to high altitudes, fast speeds, and crew. When the RJ was new, most of us flew it as captain with no previous jet time. Again, flying is flying. There was a learning curve, but we all got thru it. Another friend of mine went from a CL65 to a Challenger jet, flying mostly international trips. Its flying.

BUT you were all working as full time employees for the company... Not trying to work your way in off the street as an occasional use contract guy... Yet another BIG difference... Typically only experienced guys are used as contract guys... You certainly don't want a guy in the right seat who only sees the jet once every 30-60 days... Baby sitting a noob on a long International trip is NOT fun...

Like AA717 said, you are missing the point... "The flying isn't the half of it"...

No one is saying he (or anyone else) can't do it, but like AA717 said, perhaps working his way up to that goal might be a little more realistic of an option... I'd hate to see a guy drop $45k (via a loan) and then realize he isn't going to earn enough to pay it back...

 

[skiandsurf]

... I'd hate to see a guy drop $45k (via a loan) and then realize he isn't going to earn enough to pay it back...

I can appreciate your concern for his money. It is a big gamble.

 

[cvoav8r]

Interested in aquiring a GEX type rating and becoming an IC pilot. I have a bunch of time in the CL-65 and I believe that will help market me. I don't have any real long haul, large corp jet experience, but than again where do you begin? I suppose sitting in the right seat for a while. I have the loan set and am ready to dive in. ANY HELP/ADVICE would be GREATLY appreciated as this is a new world I am about to enter. I live in South Florida and from my research is an excellent market for this kind of work.

Thanks a lot.

Cody you disgust me. Please stay in the countless ranks of dime a dozen RJ pilots. As a "domestic" pilot you have not the faintest capability to to Captain a large corporate jet across oceans and continents. It is a set of both personal and proffessional skills you don't possess if you are asking for advice on this medium. Better stay in line at FEDEX. We don't want you.

 

[X man]

Global


Hay, what a nice change the corporate flying will be for you. It worked well for me for 23 years,(727,707,737,CE-750), Indonesia, Singapore, Japan, Middle East, Europe, etc.

My opinion, before you get rated and spend that sort of money, is perhaps approach some of these GEX operators about employment first. The time you have now will certainly assist you, two pilot jet, simular type aircraft. The actual corporate experience will come later. Having a new rating is helpful, but with the minimum corporate experience, it would probably be right seat for awhile, which you said you were willing to do. Especially in the corporate world, it is who knows you and would be willing to go on 2 and 3 week trips with you, and If they are in a position to get you or assist you in getting employment. That is actually more of a key factor than a brand new rating.

If you were advised that having the rating would get you that good corporate position, even a brand new wet one, that would financially(sp) award you enough for a long enough period of time to make it all worth while, then I would go ahead .

Whatever you do, Good Luck

 

[LRvsH25B]

Cody you disgust me. Please stay in the countless ranks of dime a dozen RJ pilots. As a "domestic" pilot you have not the faintest capability to to Captain a large corporate jet across oceans and continents. It is a set of both personal and proffessional skills you don't possess if you are asking for advice on this medium. Better stay in line at FEDEX. We don't want you.

Cvoav8r, Is your post an example of the type of professionalism that he lacks? I sure hope not. The professional would have ignored that obvious flame bait instead of showing arrogance and a lack of manners.

 

[h25b]

Yeah, a CL65 is built by Bombardier and the Global is built by Bom...oh wait. I mean the CL65 has 2 engines mounted aft of ....I mean the CL65 only burns 100LL....oh, it burns Jet A ? Well since the CL65 holds 50 people and a FA and the Global only carries 13 people, it is too much airplane for you lowly regional pilot.

I met one of the Global Demo pilots. He was a Saab 340 FO at eagle, and he made the transition just fine.

The hardest part of the "airline to corporate" transition, is seeing all the waste of money. Airlines try to save, corporates try to spend.

Congrats... You win for the best oversimplification of the year.

Oh yeah, the airlines get my vote for the leanest business model out there.

 

[charter dog]

Cody_V:

Laying out that kind of coin without some assurance of earning it all back in a reasonable period of time is a pretty big risk. Somebody in another post suggested making some arrangement with an operator prior to committing to training. That is good advice worth considering.

Here's why:

1) Corporate flight departments, as a general rule, don't hire day rate pilots who are not well known to them to crew their long-range international trips for the reasons stated in some of the above posts. If they did, those pilots would typically be highly experienced corporate pilots with impeccable references. That's just the way they have traditionally operated. They would rather pay to train one of their own domestic pilots than to fly with an unknown quantity. But then ya never know, right place, right time...

2) Corporate ops have an entirely different focus than other types of pilot jobs. Pilots flying large corporate jets typically have many years of corporate experience before getting a shot at these positions. Most of them flew smaller jets in corporate and/or charter for many years. Proven apptitude and attitude for this kind of work. I guess there are always exceptions...

I really don't mean to be harsh, but the realities of this business sometimes are. Because it's all about personalities. Qualifications are just a screening tool. Attitudes and contacts determine who gets hired.

So, some possibilities you might consider instead:

1) There are probably plenty of charter companies willing to give a guy who will pay for his own training a shot at co-pilot to fill a seat in their G or equivalent. I know of a couple, but nobody stays very long. Costs them nothing and if you turn out to be a liability, or the captains don't like your attitude, you're gone and it cost them nothing. Better that the captains of the company's smaller jets don't find out about your "arrangement". Also keep in mind that you must go to training on an operator's certificate in order to receive 135 training certification as part of your type training. This usually means competing all the indoc, drug, background and company specific signoffs prior to issuance of your training authorization. YMMV.

2) Find a charter company that is willing to make an agreement with you to hire you and split the initial training costs with you under the agreement (in writing) that they will re-imburse your investment on a pro-rata basis over your first year of service. This may be attractive to them because it reduces their initial cash outlay and any financial risk is shared by both parties.

3) Start over. See what kind of job you can get hired into purely on your merits. This route will generally mean a smaller, less glamorous jet than the Global or G-V and the lower pay and prestige that goes with it. But there is no cash outlay and all the money they pay you is yours. After a year or two, you may be able to upgrade to a bigger jet or captain the smaller one. Depends how much they like you and your job performance. If not, then maybe that will be a better time to buy a seat. At least then, you have some recent charter experience to stand on. Try for the Challenger 601 or 604.

So whatever you do, don't lay out a bunch of cash (especially borrowed) without some pretty solid assurance that you will receive a profitable return on the investment.

Best,

PS If this is just flamebait, I'll cut you out of my will!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Yeah, a CL65 is built by Bombardier and the Global is built by Bom...oh wait. I mean the CL65 has 2 engines mounted aft of ....I mean the CL65 only burns 100LL....oh, it burns Jet A ? Well since the CL65 holds 50 people and a FA and the Global only carries 13 people, it is too much airplane for you lowly regional pilot.

I met one of the Global Demo pilots. He was a Saab 340 FO at eagle, and he made the transition just fine.

The hardest part of the "airline to corporate" transition, is seeing all the waste of money. Airlines try to save, corporates try to spend.

waste of money? -- humm..

lets compare corporate to airline....

I believe the corporation I work for can buy all US passenger airline stock less than one quarters after tax profit. Every single share. yup....keep wasting money huh?...I also think our entire flight operation is fully funded by profits about 6 hours into January 1 every year.

Airline guys cheer when thier company posts losses smaller than expected, our stockholders get angry when profits fall below 20 billion.

PROFITS. you airline guys need to look that one up. Its in the aviation dictionary right next to STABILTY.

(hint: its not in your ALPA contracts.)

The original poster meant well, but NO he does not yet understand its not simply having the ratings and the hours like the airlines...a monkey can fly from Point A to Point B....but there is a reason a GLEX pilot makes about 100K more than an RJ pilot. Its a very different attitude and set of people skills. Nothing special, just very different than the RJ mentality often displayed here.

good luck.

 

[Spooky 2]

Cody you disgust me. Please stay in the countless ranks of dime a dozen RJ pilots. As a "domestic" pilot you have not the faintest capability to to Captain a large corporate jet across oceans and continents. It is a set of both personal and proffessional skills you don't possess if you are asking for advice on this medium. Better stay in line at FEDEX. We don't want you.

Well Cody, as you can see all of the as#ho#es are not in the majors or regionals. Sounds risky but who knows, no risks, no rewards. I would suspect that maybe a couple hundred hours domestic before the international ops would be a hugh benefit, but you gotta play the cards your delt. Don't forget you will need some sort of International training such as FSI and that will cost you another 3 to 4 grand on top of what ever you paid for the GEX rating. I do now someone who has done just what you are talking about, albeit he had extensive international experience via a prior 121 operation. He is working his butt off as a per diem pilot as I write this. Best of luck! PS, He paid about 28G's for his rating through a connection at FSI.

 

[unclematty]

Cody,

Several things to remember.

1.) Some companies (Fortune 500 and higher) will not use contract pilots, period. These tend to be larger companies that operate larger equipment (GV, GLEX, BBJ, 604). This is not always the case, but its generally the rule.

2.) With the above said, there are flight departments operated by high net worth individuals whom will use contract pilots. This is where I'd market myself.

3.) I know the big airplanes bring the big contract rates and as others have said there is a reason for this.

4.) Consider a smaller mid-sized aircraft that will give you multiple series within a type (HS-125, which gives 1A thru 800XP or DA-50/900) there are lots of these aircraft out there.

5.) Keep in mind, in the near future, on demand air carriers will not be able to use contract pilots. This is a result of the FAA's continued efforts to combine scheduled and on demand air carrier certificates into one certificate only.

6.) Contract flying can be very rewarding and lucrative. Best of Luck.




UM

 

[Cody_V]

GEX IC replies

Thanks to all of you who have replied to my thread.
For the record, I have spent the past 14 months flying corporate both 91 and 135 international (bahamas, carribean, etc.) so I am not totally unfamiliar with the corporate flying world. Also, I do not think the airlines are the ultimate place to be which is why I want to enter the IC business. I think b/c of aircraft I've flown people got the impression I am coming from the airlines, but the SF-340 is a corporate/charter plane that I am flying.

I do uderstand that this is a very difficult task and I have a lot of studying to do, but those that think flying an a/c long haul is as difficult as putting a man on the moon probably have not done this type of flying or are that piss poor of pilots that it is a difficult task for them and yet impossible for them to do it with a low time guy in the second seat. It is these pilots that contractors should avoid.

There seems a mixed reaction to my endeavor, so for those that are trying to help me and I do appreciate it, would it be wiser to look at possibly a Challenger 300 or 604 type instead and then work up to the GEX?

Thanks again for your input!