Getting the Citation II type

[knelson]

My company is currently in the process of buying a Citation II SP and I am curious as to where I should go to get the ground/sim/type. I know there are several schools available, (Flight Safety, Simuflite, Simcom) does anyone have any opinions on which school would be better to attend and why?

I have been to Simcom and Simuflite before and have had good experience with both. Thanks in advance.

Kevin

 

[bobbysamd]

Citation type

You can't go wrong with the name brands, but I have another suggestion.

About twelve years ago, I got my Citation type with Mike Pappas at Professional Airline Systems in Carlsbad, California, near San Diego. I have heard that Mike is still around, but I cannot locate his company. Someone said that he's the DE at the Scandanavian Flight Academy in San Diego, http://www.scanavia.com/introFrame.html . I tried dropping him an e-mail several weeks ago at that school, but received no reply. Maybe someone knows where Mike is and can provide contact info.

Mike is a great guy and you'll have a terrific experience if you train with him. I recommend him highly.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I use to work at Flight Safety in Wichita...I know they do an excellent job, but really what I wanted to say is there is a Fred Pappas that works there. I wonder if he's related to Mike?

 

[Little_Bill]

Citation Type

Try flightcrewsystems.com

Me thinks it is the company started by Mike Pappas. Do not know if he is still on board or not.

Good Luck

 

[stingray]

I would use one of the 3 in your post, i've been to flight saftety and to simcom. for citation at flight safety, king air and 414 at simcom. I would use which ever one that has the sim that is closer to the Cit II, as we know a CE-500 rating is good for I through V and the Encore, I did mine in a CIT V sim if I had to fly a II i would need some transition training.

 

[ILLINI]

I've never been to any of the 3 schools that you mentioned, but I have seen several companies advertising positions for Citation or Lear pilots that also say that they prefer candidates to have a Flight Safety or Simuflite card for that particular aircraft.

Not that these two schools are any better than any of the other places that have been mentioned here, but a card from Flight Safety or Simuflite might benefit you later on should you want to move on to another company.

Something to think about

 

[bobbysamd]

Mike Pappas

Little Bill is correct. www.flightcrewsystems.com is the web site. The street address is the same as I remember.

Once again, check it out. Mike is a super, super guy.

 

[capt_zman]

Did the Citation type at FlightSafety in San Antonio in a SII, which is pretty close to a straight II. Although expensive, the overall training was outstanding and the experience was very good (only major problem was $16000 for the initial).

The next year I decided to try Quickturn in Dallas for recurrent and found that to be of a lesser quality than FlightSafety (sim is a level A, and the training regimen is very relaxed). The big win here was that it was only $5000, whereas the recurrent price for FlightSafety was $8900.

The next year I went back to FlightSafety and received the same excellent training I had experienced before.

Sorry I don't have any experience with Simuflite.

Looking at your numbers, it looks like this is your first type rating, so I would definitely spend the dough and go to FlightSafety. The big win is that you know exactly what your getting.

 

[knelson]

Thanks for all the repiles guys (and gals?). I appreciate all of you jumping right on this one. I think Flight Safety will be the one.

Once again, thanks for the help.

Kevin

 

[flyhi]

Just got the CE-500 type in Scottsdale, AZ at Simcom. Great experience. Ground instructor and DE, Mitch, bought the Professional Airline Systems school some time back in the late eighties, early nineties, i believe, and then Simcom bought it from him. So, same material, but course is through Simcom. Extremely knowledgable fella and very personable. About 11,000 for initial type and 3,500 for recurrent. Stay at the hotel on Princess Drive, like an apartment complex with an awesome heated pool and hot tub. Great time. Wherever you go, good luck and have fun!

 

[kilomike]

Scandinavian Flight Academy

I did my CE-500 type at the Scandinavian Flight Academy and took my check ride with Mike Pappas in January of 1999. Great guy and excellent course. I enjoyed the training and highly recommend the Scandinavian Flight Academy.

kilomike

 

[DesertFalcon]

Does it do any good to get a Citation or other Jet Type rating to improve the chances of getting Jet experience?

Anyone out there have an opinion?

I have lots of Turbine and Turbine PIC time, but no Jet time.
Still banging my head against the wall.


DesertFalcon

 

[bobbysamd]

Turbine time v. Jet Time

The fact that you have lots of turbine PIC time is key. That should open plenty of doors. I don't think that not having jet time will matter particularly and a type will really help that much either. You won't get enough jet time during your training to really matter. If a place hires you, it'll send you someplace to be typed on its nickel.

Maybe you're not applying for the right jobs.

 

[DesertFalcon]

BobbySamd;

Thanks for your comeback.

I am only applying to companies that have Jets only.

I am well qualified; Perhaps the current market is what is slowing down my progress.

What a brain!
What else could it be?

I am sure over time I will get where I want to be.

I am 46 years old now; unfortunately, I don't long until
my career ends, under Part 121.

I am starting to see increased hiring in the industry.
Are you seeing the same?

DesertFalcon

 

[bobbysamd]

More Industry hiring

I think you have it figured out. We can hope the economy will get better soon. I thought I heard Alan Greenspan say the economy is picking up. I'm not tuned into hiring as much as others, but I'm interested and keeping my ear to the ground.

But, regarding your question about getting the type rating, I don't know how much it really would help in and of itself. I would think your that your current quals say lots about you without having to add a type. Now, if you're looking for jobs that demand the type, naturally, that's another matter. Obviously, the type and your other turbine PIC should get some attention.

 

[capt_zman]

I agree that the type rating does absolutely nothing to enhance your chances of getting hired, unless you are targeting companies that have certain types of jets.

For instance, getting a lear type might enhance your ability to get an interview and/or job if you live in Southern Florida, or getting any type rating if you live in the NYC metro area. Being able to correctly position yourself in a large market might make a big difference, but there is some serious risk and monetary concerns that come with this.

Other than that, I can't see any benefit to spending the money to get a type rating. Think about this, I own a 58 baron and every year when I renew the insurance, I have compiled significant amounts of jet and turboprop time, which the insurance company says means squat towards my premium. Go figure.

 

[DesertFalcon]

Wow! I didn't realize the insurance companies were so tough.

Based on your information and the fact I don't really have the money to spend, I will not be getting a type rating. It is very tempting though.

I take it, that your type was given by your job?

Thanks for the words of wisdom.

DesertFalcon

==========================================

I have compiled significant amounts of jet and turboprop time, which the insurance company says means squat towards my premium. Go figure.