Getting info from ATC Radar tapes

[Sniper Bob]

Here's the long-winded version:

I was talking with a rancher (who owns a great deal of land) as we were watching some storms pass by. He started talking about cloud seeding and how it was reducing the amount of precipitation he and other ranchers were getting. They (all ranchers involved) were able to get the water district/seeders to stop work in their counties. He has since seen the aircraft over his land doing the deed. Just in passing he said he wished there was a way to prove they were flying over his land again. Like a moron, I told him the airplane was probably talking to ATC and he would be on radar. If he could get copies of those (which I said would be very difficult, if not impossible), that could prove where the airplane was flying. Well, he has asked me if I could find out how, and then get copies of the tapes. Now here I am.

First, without an act of Congress, is it even possible to obtain copies for possible future litigation against the water district (not the pilots,et al)? Second, well, there's not a second. My next stop would be the FSDO if I get more yea's than nay's.

I would really like to tell him that they only release/review tapes for accidents and incidents, and not for stuff like this.

What do you all think?

 

[mattpilot]

He has since seen the aircraft over his land doing the deed.

Now i'm no expert in cloud seeding (and i didn't stay at a holiday inn express last night), but if they started doing it over his ranch, wouldn't that INCREASE the rainfall on his ranch? Wasn't he complaining about reduced rainfall? Wouldn't seeding above his property increase rainfall in his area?

 

[Sniper Bob]

I, too, did not stay at the ole Express. I was always under the impression that cloud seeding was to prevent hail, which in turn, prevents major damage to farmers crops. If you prevent hail, you might also prevent all precip.

 

[mattpilot]

i always thought cloud seeding, 'seeded' the air with condensation nuclei so that all that moisture could form smaller drops of water (rainfall) to prevent it from forming bigger precipitation - like hail.

So if they seeded above his ranch, light rain should be the result.

I guess we will have to wait for an expert to clear things up

 

[RockyMnt1]

Just because the aircraft was over his property does not mean that it was in the process of actively seeding. He would have to prove that the seeding material was being disbursed while over his land. In addition, the last that I heard, it was not illegal to throw anything from an aircraft as long as it did no damage to anything on the ground. He would have a very hard and expensive time proving this. The land owner does not own the "air rights" above his land.

On a much higher perspective, this is just the tip of the iceberg relating to water wars that will escalate very shortly. The western drought and the ever increasing water demands of the western major metropolitan areas (LA. PHX, ect.) are about to heat up. The Colorado river cannot keep up with the demand. Some of those hot tups and swimming pools in the west are going to have to be emptied and lifestyles relating to water will need to change. Next to oil, I suggest investing in fresh water futures!!!

 

[Fat Tire Rider]

i always thought cloud seeding, 'seeded' the air with condensation nuclei so that all that moisture could form smaller drops of water (rainfall) to prevent it from forming bigger precipitation - like hail.

So if they seeded above his ranch, light rain should be the result.

I guess we will have to wait for an expert to clear things up

You are correct, seeding a cloud provides the moisture a nuclei to attach to and form a water dropplet and fall as rain, rather that staying in the cloud and forming hail. I am by no means an expert, but I have done a little cloud seeding. Also, the results are not instantaneous, it takes a while for the chemical to get sucked up into the cloud and work with the moisture. If they were working above the ranchers land, the results probably wouldn't be seen until the storm passed his land.

 

[Sniper Bob]

If they were working above the ranchers land, the results probably wouldn't be seen until the storm passed his land.

I think that is his point. The rain ends up falling somewhere down wind, when, if they didn't seed, it would have fallen on his land.

 

[Fat Tire Rider]

Cloud seeding doesn't delay, prevent, or change the course of percipitation. What it does do is change it from a solid state to a liquid one. If someone didn't get rain, it's not due to the seeders.
The problem that most people have with cloud seeding is that they fail to understand the science involved and how Mother Nature operates.

Back to the original point of the thread, I don't think someone can get a copy with out a lot of lawyers becoming involved.

 

[air_chompers]

Gosh, I thought you could call ATC and and ask them about planes and there location. (the last time I heard of someone doing this was in 1983)