Getting a 747 type

[xdays]

Yes, but the only time three pilots are required is when you exceed 8 block hours in 24. Very unusual with the A300/310 and in that case FedEx used another Captain. That no longer is the case since the A310 now overflys Iran on the DXB-CDG leg, which was the only leg the extra Captain was used. In the MD11 all F/Os are type rated because exceeding 8 or even 12 in 24 is the norm.

We may be saying the same thing in a different way, but to clarify, earlier you stated that "There is no, and never has been any requirement to hold a type rating to fly internationally." Above you state that three pilots are required when block time is (scheduled) to exceed 8 hours in 24 hours. I would ask you why FedEx is type rating F/O's when, as you stated, it is not a requirement. Please read FAR 121.437 once more. Also, this reg was effective 3/12/97, so any reference to Seaboard is moot, as they were not in existence when the reg was in place. Any reference to aircraft that require an FE does not apply, as that situation comes under a completely different reg. As with any explanation of FAR's, it's probably all as clear as mud by now!

 

[FoxHunter]

We may be saying the same thing in a different way, but to clarify, earlier you stated that "There is no, and never has been any requirement to hold a type rating to fly internationally." Above you state that three pilots are required when block time is (scheduled) to exceed 8 hours in 24 hours. I would ask you why FedEx is type rating F/O's when, as you stated, it is not a requirement. Please read FAR 121.437 once more. Also, this reg was effective 3/12/97, so any reference to Seaboard is moot, as they were not in existence when the reg was in place. Any reference to aircraft that require an FE does not apply, as that situation comes under a completely different reg. As with any explanation of FAR's, it's probably all as clear as mud by now!

Both the MD11s and A300s at FedEx are two pilot aircraft. FedEx types all F/Os on the MD11. They do not type any F/Os on the A300. A good prtion of the time I fly with just a F/O, my last trip MEM-ANC, ANC-NRT, NRT-SFS-HKG all with two pilots, the remainder, HKG-ALA, ALA-CDG, CDG-MEM all with a RFO. The first of those actually did not require the RFO but we carry one. Now the A300 fleet are actually A300-600s, or A310s. No A300 F/Os are type rated normally, although there may be a few that work or worked in training that have the rating. The A300 flys all over Asia, and all over Europe and the Middle East with F/Os that are not type rated. They are trained to FAA F/O standards which is really no different than the MD11 type rated F/Os.

The deal is that there must be ONE type rated pilot on the flight deck at all times. If the block time exceeds 8 hours the Captain cannot be scheduled to to be in the cockpit in excess of 8 hours. FedEx could have decided to type rate only a portion of the MD11 F/Os and use them as just relief pilots. They have chosen to rate all because it makes scheduling a lot easier. Any F/O can be either a F/O or RFO, and any Captain can be a RFO.

Now I wish that there had been a requirement to type F/Os when I was doing it. It would have made my search for work duning furlough a lot easier. The requlation you quote was in force before I started with Seaboard.

 

[xdays]

Both the MD11s and A300s at FedEx are two pilot aircraft. FedEx types all F/Os on the MD11. They do not type any F/Os on the A300. A good prtion of the time I fly with just a F/O, my last trip MEM-ANC, ANC-NRT, NRT-SFS-HKG all with two pilots, the remainder, HKG-ALA, ALA-CDG, CDG-MEM all with a RFO. The first of those actually did not require the RFO but we carry one. Now the A300 fleet are actually A300-600s, or A310s. No A300 F/Os are type rated normally, although there may be a few that work or worked in training that have the rating. The A300 flys all over Asia, and all over Europe and the Middle East with F/Os that are not type rated. They are trained to FAA F/O standards which is really no different than the MD11 type rated F/Os.

The deal is that there must be ONE type rated pilot on the flight deck at all times. If the block time exceeds 8 hours the Captain cannot be scheduled to to be in the cockpit in excess of 8 hours. FedEx could have decided to type rate only a portion of the MD11 F/Os and use them as just relief pilots. They have chosen to rate all because it makes scheduling a lot easier. Any F/O can be either a F/O or RFO, and any Captain can be a RFO.

.

I'll try it one more time and then give you the last word, keeping in mind that I am responding to your claim that there never was a requirement to hold a type rating to fly international. FAR 121.437 addresses the requirement when a U.S. flag operation requires three or more pilots. Your A-300 has a flight engineer and does not require a third or relief pilot until scheduled flight time exceeds 12 hours in 24. Different reg. FedEx types MD-11 F/O's because having one additional type rated pilot on crew is a requirement of FAR 121.437 on international flights. Delta typed all 767 and 777 F/O's, domestic and international, because it was cost effective to do so. This reg was effective March 12, 1997, which I believe was long after Seaboard went out of business.
Hope that helps.

 

[FoxHunter]

I'll try it one more time and then give you the last word, keeping in mind that I am responding to your claim that there never was a requirement to hold a type rating to fly international. FAR 121.437 addresses the requirement when a U.S. flag operation requires three or more pilots. Your A-300 has a flight engineer and does not require a third or relief pilot until scheduled flight time exceeds 12 hours in 24. Different reg. FedEx types MD-11 F/O's because having one additional type rated pilot on crew is a requirement of FAR 121.437 on international flights. Delta typed all 767 and 777 F/O's, domestic and international, because it was cost effective to do so. This reg was effective March 12, 1997, which I believe was long after Seaboard went out of business.
Hope that helps.

Our A300s DO NOT, have never, or ever have been required, to have a flight engineer. The A300-600, and A310, the types that FedEx fly, is a two pilot aircraft, one Captain and one F/O. Now the original A300B4, that FedEx never operated did have a F/E. Again, Fedex operates the A300-600, A310 and the MD11 as two pilot aircraft. If either is going to exceed 8 hours block a third pilot is required. This two pilot A300 is flown in Europe, Middle East, Far East with Two pilots, Captain and non type rated F/O, no F/E. There is and never has been a requirement to have a type as a F/O for international flying. The regulation you quote, the basic requirement has been in effect since the FARs were first written. When you see a newer date attached to an FAR it is usually because a word or two has changed. It has alwas been if you exceed 8 hours you required three pilots. This goes back before FARs to CARs and the DC-4. You are corrrect that you can fly 12 block hours with two pilots and a F/E. When this is exceeded two of the pilots require a type. This has only to do with scheduled block time for international flights. As long as you do not schedule to exceed 8 block hours a type is not required domestic or international. Now a company may choose to type the F/O, but it has never been required.

BTW Seaboard never went out of business, they were bought by Flying Tigers in 1980.

 

[The5th]

...and all I wanted was a 747 type.

 

[Varig]

Check aeroservice and panam academy. I know they do it but don't know which is better.