Gasoline War

[N49185]

I received this email today- I'm not quite sure what I think of this idea.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All:
I got this and thought it might be worth passing on. So take a minute and
read it and see what you think.


Subject: Fw: GAS WAR

>I hear we are going to hit close to $3.00 a gallon by the summer. Want
>gasoline prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united
>action.
>
>
>
>Phillip Hollsworth, offered this good idea:This makes MORE SENSE than
>the "don't buy gas on a certain day" campaign that wasgoing around last
>April or May!
>
>The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't
>continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an
>inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.
>
>
>
>BUT,whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can
>really work. Please read it and join with us!
>
>
>By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super
>cheap. Me too! It is currently $1.97 for regular unleaded in my town.
>
>
>Nowthat the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us
>tothinkthat the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50-$1.75, we
>need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the
>marketplace .. not sellers.
>
>
>With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to
>take action. The only way we are going to see the price of gas come
>down is if we
>hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas!
>
>
>
>And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. How? Since we all rely on
>our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But we CAN have an impact on
>gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.
>
>
>Here's the idea:For the rest of this year, DON"T purchase ANY gasoline
>from the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If
>they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their
>prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to
>follow suit.
>
>
>But to have an impact, we need to reach literally million! s of Exxon
>and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do!! Now, don't whimp out
>on me at this point .. keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is
>to reach millions of people!!
>
>
>I am sending this note to about thirty people If each of you send it to
>at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) .. and those 300 send it to at least
>ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) .. and so on, by the time the message
>reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE
>MILLION consumers!
>
>
> If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends
>each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one
>level further, you guessed it .. THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE !!
>
>
>
>Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people and DON'T purchase
>ANY gasoline from EXXON and MOBIL. That's all. (If you don't understand
>how we can reach 300 million and all you have to do is send this to 10
>people .. well, let's face
>it, you just aren't a mathematician. But I am... so trust me on this one.)
>Howw long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten
>more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could
>conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!
>
>
>
> I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you!
>Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you,
>please pass this message on
>
>.
> PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND
>KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK.
>

 

[Mogus]

You posted this on another forum. It's a stupid idea. Get a life.

 

[N49185]

Ok Mogus, if you had read carefully you would have known that I posted it here to see if any smart people could explain if It was a fiscally good idea (For us and the economy).

 

[Wankel7]

Sure, I will.

The town I live in is weird. At least to me.

The Shells, Exxons,.... are priced the same as the el cheapo gas stations. I was always used to the brand names being higher priced.

Wankel

 

[Mogus]

I like how you put "smart people" in italics, questioning my intelligence. One of your many ill-informed musings from your sloppy excuse for a website:

Flying is one of the safest activities in the world. It is safer than driving, boating, and even eating! You are more likely to be attacked by a bull than to crash in an airplane.

By the way, yeah, it probably would work, but it's a matter of practicality. First, you're not going to be able to distribute the idea widely enough. Second, people will not go out of their way to buy from a different gas company. They're smarter than you to know that it won't make a difference.

 

[bart]

It would work, if only the El Cheapo gas stations didn't buy THEIR gas from Mobil and Exxon.

Study the petroleum distribution system in the US. You will see that most of the distribution is controlled by a few companies.

 

[N49185]

I think the idea is not very thought out. The only way to bring the price down is to bring the demand down. Americans can bring the prices down by getting rid of the stupid, useless SUVs and buying CARS.

 

[bart]

I find the oversize SUV I drive every day much more useful than any CAR I ever owned. Only 11 mpg, but who is counting?

 

[jarhead]

Unfortunately, this is an idea that simply cannot fly. Oil is a fungible commodity that has a world wide demand. True, the U.S. probably has the largest per capita consumption of oil and gasoline, but its citizenry pays the least per gallon than any industrialized country in the world. Most places abroad, (except for the OPEC states) pay anywhere from $2.50 a gallon for gas, to over $4.00 a gallon. Much of this price differential to the US price has to do with taxes imposed by governments, as a method to “socially” engineer the populace towards energy conservation. Other places, the Nation of South Africa in particular, make gasoline and diesel fuel by liquefying gas from coal, and refining it for use in automobiles. China now has under construction, with U.S. technology helping, its first coal liquefaction plant. It is to be operational in 2005. When my youngest brother lived in Johannesburg for more than a year, he paid over $4.00 a gallon, and the huge majority was from SASOL; gasoline produced from liquefied coal gas. It is an expensive process; hence the relatively higher prices than conventional petroleum based fuels. That is why they drive itty-bitty cars in South Africa. They want high mpg to keep the bite on the family budget in line for gasoline. They don’t drive American cars, which are referred to by South Africans, as “Yank Tanks”.

One of the flaws in the e-mail that the author says will bring the price of gas in the U.S. down, is that as you “boycott” the large companies (Exxon/Mobile) and do not reduce the overall demand, is that now the total demand for gas falls on a smaller base. As the gas stations not “boycotted”, will run low, or out of gas, and the price rises….simple economics. You’d have huge gas lines, and those retailers could literally raise his price to $25.00 a gallon, or whatever the traffic would bear.

There is also a flaw in his mathematic assumptions. He suggests that in 8 days 300 million people in the U.S. would be reached. Problem: the entire U.S. population is 300 million folks or so. In that population, there are infants, pre schoolers, adolescents, the old and infirmed who cannot drive, the prison population, the rich who buy $50 an ounce Russian caviar and fly private jets, and just don’t give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** about the price of gas. Beyond that, there are many households that do not even have computers in them. And he states that if we don’t understand his premise, that we just are not mathematicians. Huh? I think he’s the guy with math problems. It has no bearing, in any event.

Another flaw in the author of the e-mail’s argument is that refiners and retailers are the culprits in the rising prices at out pumps. He neglects to mention OPEC at all. OPEC just recently agreed to reduce production of crude oil by 10%, beginning in April. As I watched the financial news last Friday, I saw that the price of crude was up to $32.48 per barrel. It will rise further as the spigots at OPEC are tightened again. We are hostage to the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.

The ONLY ways to get prices down at the gas pumps is to reduce total demand, raise total production, and/or reduce state and federal tax at the pump. That’s all that can be done to affect the pump price. If the populace wants cheaper gas, it will have to be done by allowing drilling where environmentalists don’t want drilling; ANWR and off shore.

It seems as though environmentalists don’t have a problem with North Sea oil from Norway coming to U.S. markets. The “Not in my backyard” syndrome? If we want a pristine environment for the caribou up at Point Barrow in Alaska in the ANWR, then we must pay for the caribou to have their pristine view of the arctic. That payment is in the form of higher gas prices and a lowering of our economic standard of living. This e-mail about a boycott of Exxon can do nothing, even in the remote idea that everyone got on board with the attempt. Either Americans trade in their full size cars and SUVs for a Prius or such, and go for 60 mpg cars, and forget about towing a boat or hauling a load of sheet rock, or be prepared to pay even more than we do now for gas. That’s just the reality, baring a whole new, undiscovered technology. Life is indeed about choices.

 

[414Flyer]

Well if you want the price down, have you considered trying to get the taxes lowered on it? That is one of the biggest contributors to the price of gas.

The best ways to pay less for gas, are to drive less, have a more fuel efficent car, use public transportation, or bike/walk.

There is still a lot of competition, and if you think they are colluding together to keep prices artificially high, that would take a pretty big conspiracy.

 

[flyifrvfr]

The gas prices has nothing to do with what size car or truck you drive. It has more to do with the fact that Americans are far too busy and independant to force a change in prices. How many people would rather take Mass Transit as opposed to driving thier own vehilcles. How many Americans would walk or ride a bike to work or go about thier normal everyday lives. The only way to lower prices for gasoline is to stop buying gasoline period. If you go to a gas station other than Exxon or mobile you still are buying gasoline which most likely came from either Exxon, Sunoco, Amoco, or Hess, just to name a few. These companies each have refineries and each supply fuel for each other. I worked for Hess as a Tanker Driver and Have witnessed Sunoco, Exxon, and Amoco fueling at our terminal. Knowing this would certainly show that brand loyalty is a farce. Go to Hess and you may be pumping Amoco or Exxon. The fuel companies know that Americans will not give up thier independance and freedom to drive when and where we choose. They know we will pay whatever price they put on gasoline, sure we may complain and cry and come up with half baked ideas to lower prices. But we will continue to buy gas period. If you want gas prices to go down take Mass Transit or walk. Of course prices will increase for Mass Transit because of increased ridership, and so goes the lesson on supply and demand. The gas companies supply and demand a kings ransom and there is nothing we can do about it.

 

[jarhead]

Many have correctly stated, that in order to have a downward effect on gas prices, the total demand must come down. Some suggest that mass transit, biking to work or walking would not only reduce their $$ spent on gas, but would reduce demand by that alternative way to get around.

There are some practical limitations to that being totally feasable in a country the size of the USA. How would you like to wrestle 6 bags of groceries onto a bus. Many folks (like me) live in small, remote rural areas with no mass transit, and a cab would cost more than driving. Many folks (like me) live in not too hospitable climates to walk or ride a bike. We will be getting a 12 inch snowstorm tonight in Minnesota where I live. Try biking or walking in that. My work place being 20 miles away, on rural roads, is not amenible to anything but a private automobile.

Total tax, Federal and State for gas in Minnesota is 37 cents a gallon, out of the 1.65 I paid at the pump today. Around 25% of the cost is tax. But, we also have a LOT of road mainenence in Minnesota, due in no small measure to the severity of our winter, which seems like it's half the year. The old joke "this year summer falls on a weekend" comes to mind. Our citizens are clamoring for more and better roads. You guessed it; that's where those road and bridge projects get funded from. Politicians have no stomach for reducing the gas tax, given the jobs that are provided to the needed highway crews and road construction crews.

No easy answers.

 

[Flying Illini]

I think the idea is not very thought out. The only way to bring the price down is to bring the demand down. Americans can bring the prices down by getting rid of the stupid, useless SUVs and buying CARS.

I drive an SUV. It hauls more, can pull a trailer, and doesn't get stuck in the mud like a car would.
ALSO, stop blaming the gas issue on SUV's. Pick-up trucks get the same MPG as many SUVs, big rig trucks get FEWER mpg than SUVs, etc. Do I need to go on?! Alot of vehicles out there drink alot of gas so why is it that SUVs have become a target?
By buying cars do you mean the new GTO? I'm SURE that gets 30mpg! <thick sarcasm>.

 

[jarhead]

N49185

You may be onto something there, when you refer to "Stupid, Useless SUV's" I've never seen an SUV with an I.Q. higher than 12.

As far as useless, I'll challenge you to pull my 5,000 pound boat around in a Prius, or a load of sheet rock in a VW bug. I think you mis-speak when you call them useless, but I agree, they are "stupid", but then again, so is your Honda Civic

 

[Billy Madison]

I thought we won the war.

Now give me my cheap gas.

Billy

 

[N49185]

You may be onto something there, when you refer to "Stupid, Useless SUV's" I've never seen an SUV with an I.Q. higher than 12.

As far as useless, I'll challenge you to pull my 5,000 pound boat around in a Prius, or a load of sheet rock in a VW bug. I think you mis-speak when you call them useless, but I agree, they are "stupid", but then again, so is your Honda Civic

When I say "useless," That is extended to mean the majority of people who drive them, yet have no real use for them (Soccer Moms). Most men who want to haul things use trucks.

 

[Immelman]

I'm feeling like a jacka** so here are my smart-a** thoughts on the matter:

I commute to work on my bicycle (to the local airport, too sometimes)... W's oil pals can raise the price all they want; in the end it will just help the environment anyways. I'll happily pay some more at the grocery store to cover shipping costs too, if it gets @#@*()# SUVs off the pavement that don't need to be driving.

Personal rants aside, we WILL eventually run out of petroleum. It won't happen over night... demand will continue to rise w/o supply, and so will the price.... then one magical day alternatives for power generation & transportation will, one by one, make themselves more economically feasible... gas going up can only stimulate this sort of technological development & perfection, along with the jobs & taxes to go with it.... so do what's right for 'W', the economy, and the environment: eliminate gas.

 

[Flying Illini]

There are probably alternative fuel vehicles out there that are much more feasable than we think but the petroleum lobby doesn't want them being introduced ...they've got to keep making money. Eventually though, it will happen, it's inevitable.

I'm curious about the Toyota hybrid SUV that's coming out. Will it still be able to tow large loads or will it be severly limited by it's electric motor?

 

[jarhead]

I have heard that Ford is coming out this fall with a large, hybrid SUV that will be able to closely match the conventional SUV and pick up truck in payload capacity. It will be interesting to see how the price compares to conventional units, and if it will be a limited production item to "test" the market with.

 

[jarhead]

Flying Illini

If you did not read my previous post, there are alternatives now. Gasoline made from liquifying gas from coal. It is made by SASOL in South Africa, and runs about $4.00 a galon, as it is more costly to produce.

The lobby you speak of does not extend past the US boaders. Gasoline is a world wide commodity, and the US cannot control the gas prices in other countries. By the way, gas abroad is way more pricy than it is in the U.S.