Gas war - Bring down prices

[FN FAL]

30 to 40 bucks a month? Do you go out to dinner? Man, you're wife has to be pissed when she has to order a salad instead of the special of the day. Super sized is obviously out of the question.

Ha, when I got to drink Fleischmans...that's the day I pull the car in the garage and close the door behind me.

 

[jetflyer]

From production outlooks I've seen of the future, we should be on a plateau for oil production for the next couple years. It should stay around 84-86 million barrels a day till about 2008.

This is because there is a lot of declines in current fields but there are a TON of new projects that are increasing oil supply at the same time. But currently the increases are just making up for the declines. Hence, level oil production.

After 2008 it's anybody's guess. We could see oil production begin to decline. Now it could happen earlier or later. Let's hope later.....

The coal-to-oil plants take about 2 years to be built and the first one just started being built now in the U.S. It will supply about 1/400th of the U.S.'s oil demand. We must do better than this.

These high oil prices are a good thing. Let's just hope they don't get out of control. These high oil prices are good because hopefully they will show everyone that these prices are here to stay and the investment dollars will start to pour into projects all over the world. Once the money starts flowing things will start getting done at a much faster rate.

Nuclear, tarsands, shale oil, Electric Plug-in hybrids, ethanol from something other than corn, cellulosic ethanol, Scooters, car-pooling, bicyclyes, walking, public transportation, moving closer to work and town, and much more will begin to be done. Let's hope those dollars start pouring in there.

We won't all lose our jobs. We may become a more poor people, but there will still be people saving for that far-away vacation, people having to go on that business trip, and people that wanna go see grandma across the country. Air travel will never end.

We're going to be fine in the long run. Eventually all the alternatives will be online and we'll say "PHEW". According to Robert Hirsch of the U.S. govt. DOE it may take a decade or two. Also Peter Tertzakian is his new book says the same thing. We'll be fine in the long run. There will just be a long, not so pleasant transition period. This doesn't mean we have to be unhappy. We will become closer with our families and to people within our local neighborhoods, and our communities will become much closer and stronger.

Jet

 

[Immelman]

I ride my bike and run to commute to work... thousands of miles now, and killer leg muscles to boot. That's my contribution.

Seriously though I think that, in a sense, the decline of oil will be a good thing. Here are some quick reasons:
1. it will teach people to be more frugal; perhaps this will spill over into the rest of their lives (yes, I know, that is bad for our capitalist growth-oriented economy)

2. it will reduce traffic congestion. who can argue with that?

3. it will reduce air pollution. regardless of which side of the fence you're on with this one, the fact is that cars emit crap out of their exhaust pipe

4. it will make roads safer..over time.. this may be marginal but I believe it will be true -- higher fuel prices will cause people to think twice about large cars & SUVs and go with more compact and safer models

5. the biggest advantage of all -- if we don't screw it up -- it will cause the next boom of technological innovation and associated prosperity in this country. technology will need to be developed that is marketable, competitive, reliable and safe that will wean us off of oil. there is a lot of money to be made here if you think about it.

 

[jetflyer]

Immelman,

You're right there is a lot of money to be made. One place to invest no doubt is alternative energy right? Also gold and other precious metals and energy.

A great Alternative Energy MUTUAL FUND is:
Guinness Atkinson Alternative Energy Fund (GAAEX) It is the new and is the only Alternative Energy Mutual fund I've ever found.

They also have the Guinness Atkinson Global Energy Fund(GAGEX) which returned over 60% last year!! I have my Roth IRA in this.

These guys at Guinness Atkinson openly talk about PEAK OIL in their energy briefs. They are investing smartly to capitalize from it.

Hey keep those spirits up and use this as an investment opportunity. You can make a lot of money off what's coming if you play it smartly.

Jet

 

[jetflyer]

C601,

The link you added about the oil poster is a great introduction to Peak Oil.
http://www.oilposter.org/posterlarge-x.html

If you're looking at it, scroll down to see zoomed in parts of the poster.

Republican Roscoe Bartlett of Maryland passed that poster out to every Congressman and Senator in the U.S. government. Let's hope they learn something and start to do something meaningful.

Jet

 

[Philerup]

Hemp. Yes the evil Marijuana. Hemp seed oil can be used for fuel oil. Also I read that back in the 70's someone did an experiment with heating the gasoline before combustion in the engine. Wet fuel don't burn, fuel vapors do. Supposedly someone heated gasoline and sent the vapors to the engine. Got 100 MPG from what I hear. Of course could be urban legend. We need to go European style. They have some cool cars overseas. They make driving a small car cool. These Peugot's, VW's, and Fiat's are awesome. Not to mention tons of 150-250cc motorcycles. I wish we could get them in the states. Small cars, diesel cars, not too many SUV's at all. I used to drive a small car but with so many monsters on the road it is scary. Now I drive a pickup, but still get 27 MPG. When we get cool small cars and there aren't so many SUV's hovering over me, I will go back to small and efficient.

 

[DiamondFlyer]

Last year I went out and purchased a 2006 VW Jetta TDI. Sure packing a little turbo diesel into a little Volkswagen is nothing new, but I'm getting 700 miles on 14 gallons of diesel. For fun, I've been making a real effort to purchase bio-diesel made from soybeans. I realize I'm not solving the problem, but I figure I'm helping in a small way to keep a farmer farming, using a renewable energy source and I save so much money on fuel. Sure it's loud on cold mornings, I'm not winning any races and I do have to use the diesel pumps which causes every hillbilly to saunter over and remind me I just filled her up with diesel, but it's absolutely worth it. Now Mercedes has an E-class with a CDI, I like this option. Sure diesel is probably not the solution, but it's reliable, available and something that can directly benefit me which is a motivator the other technologies haven't marketed well.

 

[tracearabians]

Ask your leaders in Washington to pass a law making it illegal
to travel on one specific day of the week. No vehicle movement except for emergengy , police or military. This would definitely hurt the oil companies expanding retirement fund.

I was going to post this on the "70 bucks a barrel of oil matched by rising airfare" thread but figured it was time for a new thread to argue about the cost of fuel. I just received this email:



What do you all think about that?

​

 

[BenderGonzales]

Trace,

Can you imagine impact to the economy of such a law? No retail activity for an entire day? ouch!

 

[dardar]

they've tried the whole "only drive your car on these days" thing in mexico city. it doesn't work. to move away from gas we first need to build communities that are less dependent on cars (i.e. smart growth communities) Building in this manner is more expensive, but will save communties money over time.

 

[JohnDoe]

quote:
"Ask your leaders in Washington to pass a law making it illegal
to travel on one specific day of the week."


How about they do something as simple as re-introducing a lower national speed limit. The economy would not be affected what-so-ever, and we would burn less gas because of it.

The fact that this type of option was not included in Bush's energy bill (but billions of $$ in tax breaks for oil companies are) shows you his statements on energy are all "fluff" and eye candy for the camera, and where his priorities really are.

 

[fugghedabowdit]

If we all purchased cars that got 40mpg or so it would make a huge difference. They're out there. I don't mean to bash the SUVers, but we are our own worst enemy.

 

[Nixon]

If we didn't want to see $70/barrel and $3/gallon, maybe we shouldn't have elected an oil-man president. I for one find it hard to believe that the prices we are seeing are simply a result of supply and demand. They are the result of an industry with high barriers to entry taking advantage of an economy that is reliant on their product, knowing they have many friends in DC who will turn a blind eye.

We'd be better of with another horny lawyer.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I tried setting the cruise control at 60 on the highway the other day. It's a big difference in RPM on my little subaru. 2600 vs. a little over 3000 at 70mph.

No idea what that would translate to in fuel savings, but it's not terribly safe! I was being passed like I was standing still by SUVs, semi trucks, and middle-aged women giving me the finger from their minivans!

I wonder if they've considered lowering the national speed limit 5 or 10mph?

 

[DiamondFlyer]

The only thing that would motivate people to drive smaller, perhaps more efficient cars is an annual tax proportionate to the excess burn rate. Of course, in order to pass such a law it would have to exempt any type of business and target H2 drivers going 85 in the left lane from gas station to gas station. (Like that's really going to happen!) I really can't say too much, I have a vehicle that only gets 11mpg myself, but it's reserved for weekends and special occasions.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I TIVO'd that program on CNN "We Were Warned" and just finished watching it. To be honest I was extremely impressed with Brazil, who will be energy independant in just a few years by using sugar ethenol.

What amazed me was that the reporter was driving an ethenol powered CHEVY!!!

The auto manufacturers have the technology. We are paying farmers NOT to farm and subsidizing failing crops. Why can't we begin the work of creating corn, cellulose, or sugar crops within the united states and begin working towards that goal ourselves? Even if just 20% of our current oil import could be home-grown (no pun intended) it would be helpful.

I'm concerned about the impact of higher gas prices on the economy. The price of food. The price of everyday goods. I'm not some environmentalist wacko. I'm concerned about the American way of life.

Good program though it pissed me off that CNN is intentionally trying to frighten people.

 

[FN FAL]

Ask your leaders in Washington to pass a law making it illegal to travel on one specific day of the week. No vehicle movement except for emergengy, police or military.

I'd agree with something like that, if the law also included language which excluded shooting the tires off of the "emergengy", police or military vehicles, from being a crime on that day.

 

[V-1]

I tried setting the cruise control at 60 on the highway the other day. It's a big difference in RPM on my little subaru. 2600 vs. a little over 3000 at 70mph.

No idea what that would translate to in fuel savings, but it's not terribly safe! I was being passed like I was standing still by SUVs, semi trucks, and middle-aged women giving me the finger from their minivans!

I wonder if they've considered lowering the national speed limit 5 or 10mph?

I drive about 75 miles per day, 90% of which are on the interstate. My V-8 powered Thunderbird gets 21 m.p.g. when I consistently drive it 70-75 m.p.h. When I choose to be disciplined and drive the 55-65 m.p.h. speed limits in my area, fuel efficiency increases to 28 m.p.g. - a 33% increase. It's like buying $3.00/gallon gasoline for $2.00/gallon.

I agree that sometimes I wonder if I should reinvest the savings in increased life insurance protection.

 

[Pantherjon]

Ask your leaders in Washington to pass a law making it illegal to travel on one specific day of the week. No vehicle movement except for emergengy , police or military. This would definitely hurt the oil companies expanding retirement fund.

DONE...National No Drive Day will be on Febuary 30th...

 

[414Flyer]

If we all purchased cars that got 40mpg or so it would make a huge difference. They're out there. I don't mean to bash the SUVers, but we are our own worst enemy.

Its like the people who buy hybrids to "feel good" about themselves, and yes they do burn less fuel, than normal cars. However, there i takes a lot of energy and resources to make a new car.

One can find a used turbo diesel or even an older honda civic hf, get about as good of mileage as a hybrid too

 

[JohnDoe]

quote:
"Good program though it pissed me off that CNN is intentionally trying to frighten people."


I agree. I started to watch it, but I think they went a little overboard with the fake "scenarios" and the "world-is-gonna-end" approach.

I also got tired of what seemed to be 3 minutes of program, then 10 minutes of commercials......




V-1's post perfectly illustrates what I was talking about in reducing the national speed limit. Something as simple as that would result in real fuel savings and wouldn't kill the economy. Yet it was left out of our fearless leader's supposed attempt at energy reform with his bill. Guess we have seen where his true priorites are with the billions in tax breaks for oil companies.

 

[jetflyer]

John Doe,

I personally as you know think the oil problem will get worse than now in the future.

I think they're saving the "Change the Speed Limit" option till there are real shortages that develop like what might happen when we go to war with Iran.

Jet

 

[BenderGonzales]

Why wait? Lower the speed limit today and have an impact on the oil-companies bottom lines tomorrow.

 

[Smacktard]

If we didn't want to see $70/barrel and $3/gallon, maybe we shouldn't have elected an oil-man president. I for one find it hard to believe that the prices we are seeing are simply a result of supply and demand. They are the result of an industry with high barriers to entry taking advantage of an economy that is reliant on their product, knowing they have many friends in DC who will turn a blind eye.

We'd be better of with another horny lawyer.

Or we shouldn't have voted in all the Democrats over the past 30 years that pandered to the environmentalists and restricted our ability to serve our own energy needs.

 

[matt7723]

Or we shouldn't have voted in all the Democrats over the past 30 years that pandered to the environmentalists and restricted our ability to serve our own energy needs.

You really think ANWR is gonna save your ass? Do you realize how wasteful we are? Do you realize how no amount of drilling will help us become energy independent? Do some research before making such stupid posts.

 

[414Flyer]

You really think ANWR is gonna save your ass? Do you realize how wasteful we are? Do you realize how no amount of drilling will help us become energy independent? Do some research before making such stupid posts.

So should we just give up all petroleum exploration then? No one is saying ANWR will make us independent, but its a huge field for US petroleum production. if ANWR is too small, then what is the proper size in order to extract petroleum?

 

[flyer172r]

Times ahead will be difficult, but I'm pretty sure we'll survive, even though we'll have to give up our SUVs. Why anyone would buy one now I don't understand. I did see today that Congress has authorized the Dept. of Energy to increase fuel efficiency standards. It's a start, I just hope it's not too late.

Interesting article: http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/Update43.html