G-VSP South Florida????????

[X-FROG]

Does anyone know about the G-VSP co-captian position I see continually advertised in the South Florida area? They have been advertising for so long-must be having trouble finding quality applicants. I think they are overlooking a lot of quality people just because you can't apply if you don't have a G-V type. What's up with that?

 

[h25b]

Welcome to the world of Gulfstream... Almost every Gulfstream job advertised requires Gulfstream experience. I am starting to wonder what's going to happen when all of these folks finally die.

Who will be left to fly these things...???...???

 

[semperfido]

gv rating is about 50k, give or take

 

[h25b]

gv rating is about 50k, give or take

A G-550 is what... 40 million... Now does that 50K seem like much...???...

Hmmmm... Food for thought...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Does anyone know about the G-VSP co-captian position I see continually advertised in the South Florida area? They have been advertising for so long-must be having trouble finding quality applicants. I think they are overlooking a lot of quality people just because you can't apply if you don't have a G-V type. What's up with that?

dont think for a second they cant find a quality applicant - its more likely they cant KEEP a quality applicant....(just a guess)

and remember - Gulfstream IV/V pilots are truly special, talented, and rare individuals. They can walk on water....you know, the G4 is the "Jesus 4" ...

or at least thats what G pilots tell us here..

any yes, they are an old group, and we will miss them so...

.

 

[semperfido]

A G-550 is what... 40 million... Now does that 50K seem like much...???...

Hmmmm... Food for thought...

they are cheap ....what can i tell you i guess they don't want to spend 50k on a young buck or buckette only to have them leave for greener pastures, when they don't have to.

i hadn't heard that jesus bit before and i have been a Gman for some time...live and learn

 

[h25b]

they are cheap ....what can i tell you i guess they don't want to spend 50k on a young buck or buckette only to have them leave for greener pastures, when they don't have to.

It's been my experience age has nothing to do with whether someone leaves for greener pastures. This is just an excuse cheap operations use when people leave.. But I agree with the, "they are cheap" hypothesis.

I hate the youth excuse. This reminds me of the line in the movie Liar, Liar when the kid asks his dad if beauty is really skin deep and he answers "that's just what ugly people say..."

 

[semperfido]

It's been my experience age has nothing to do with whether someone leaves for greener pastures.

who knows, i was just reponding to another post about "old group". the sarcasm tweeked me i shoulda quoted it.

 

[h25b]

I know what you're gettin at... No problem... And you're probably right.

 

[757BBJ_Capt]

I think for the most part the comments here are accurate. The larger jet operators can be chaep at times, but BE200 operators can be just as cheap. I have found that most of the time, it's the CP, not the primary. A type in a GV is less than 1/10 of 1 percent of the aquisition cost. It's like one of us finding a penny on the floor of our living room. It has no direct effect on our bottom line. These types of "managers" operate as cheaply as possible with the thinking that they are saving money, when in fact they are costing the company more money, albeit indirectly. For example, using revisions instead of Q-service. HAving a crew member come into the office in order to update the whole USA instead of using Q Service is a blatent waste of talent, time, and resources. When you factor in the value of that person's time, the projects he/she could be working on instead of doing updates, and possible duty time issues, it's just "cave man" thinking that allows something like that to go on. Another good example is requiring a type when looking at applicants for the particular piece of equipment. Foolishness! The qualified people that will be passed over simply because their PAST employers didn't fly such and such airplane makes no sence at all. Instead, these companies "settle" on the select few that already have such and such type all the while, in my opinion, hanging the company out to dry. By running an operation that way, you get a guy that is going to come to work for you, and will probably do a good job, but he/she is not the best fit that you might have found had the scope of applicants been expanded. So, for what ever reason this guy does not work out, you have to use contract guys to fill in while looking again, send a new guy to school, indoctrinate the new individual, do the background work, ect. That continuing cycle costs time and money and can be avoided if it the hiring process were to be conducted properly. There is no reason turnover in these stable flight departments should be as high as it is. I guess my point is that most of the time the primary does not know all of this is going on, and these "old school" types need to have their policies reviewed internally by someone with nothing riding on the outcome. When we hire, which is rare, we require a Comm-ME-INST and that's it. WE probably would not hire a 250 hour person, but we certainly not be arrogant enough to loverlook him if he were submit his resume for consideration. Being receptive to change is a good thing, not a downfall as some CP/DOs might have you think. I hope things change in this industry soon, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[h25b]

Gee Whiz, someone out there actually gets it... I mean REALLY gets the big picture. Wow, I'm turning in my Flightinfo.com account. I have no need for this board anymore.



757BBJ_Capt,

You rule man. Truely a breath of fresh air. You call me next time you hire, I'm there and I DON'T have ANY 757 time.

Take care sir, I'm outa here. I will sleep good tonite knowing there's someone else out there who thinks like I do.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

who knows, i was just reponding to another post about "old group". the sarcasm tweeked me i shoulda quoted it.

I was just kiddin' about those old cranky gulfstream pilots....

.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

1) A type in a GV is less than 1/10 of 1 percent of the aquisition cost. It's like one of us finding a penny on the floor of our living room. It has no direct effect on our bottom line. ...2) When you factor in the value of that person's time, the projects he/she could be working on instead of doing updates,

Wow! What an outlook. My comments:

1) If a type in the GV is 50 grand, and the budget for the GV department is 3.7 million per year (lease payment 200K / mo, 400 hours @ $1,500 doc, 3 pilots @ 150K, hangar 60K, insurance 200K), the 3 type ratings would be 4% of the annual budget (as you can see, we've run these numbers. Anytime you tell a rich person (AKA boss) that 50K is like finding a penny, you just sound ignorant.
2) What other important 'projects' is a pilot working on? I don't know about you, but my job's pretty straight forward and defined.

Ace

 

[h25b]

Anytime you tell a rich person (AKA boss) that 50K is like finding a penny, you just sound ignorant.

Ace

If doing it right keeps attrition to near zero, then you've just found 50K. Does that make you sound smart??? I've been at a department that turned pilots over like crazy and can tell you that the costs of that scenerio don't just stop at having to send another guy to initial.

By the way, if you don't lose people by running your dept. like an idiot that $150,000 (4%) IS NOT annual is it???

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If doing it right keeps attrition to near zero, then you've just found 50K. Does that make you sound smart??? I've been at a department that turned pilots over like crazy and can tell you that the costs of that scenerio don't just stop at having to send another guy to initial.

By the way, if you don't lose people by running your dept. like an idiot that $150,000 (4%) IS NOT annual is it???

I think the 150K was salary for each pilot -- and we all hope thats annual!!

.

 

[h25b]

I think the 150K was salary for each pilot -- and we all hope thats annual!!

.

He used the example of 50k (initial training x 3 pilots = 150K..) Just proving that the training wouldn't be the 4% of the annual budget if they had no attrition.

The small screen on the Dell 700m must be screwing with you.

 

[AA717driver]

G200--YOU YOUNG PUNK! Soon as I can find my glasses, my cane and hook up my Depends, I'll come over there and kick your a$$! TC

 

[757BBJ_Capt]

Wow! What an outlook. My comments:

1) If a type in the GV is 50 grand, and the budget for the GV department is 3.7 million per year (lease payment 200K / mo, 400 hours @ $1,500 doc, 3 pilots @ 150K, hangar 60K, insurance 200K), the 3 type ratings would be 4% of the annual budget (as you can see, we've run these numbers. Anytime you tell a rich person (AKA boss) that 50K is like finding a penny, you just sound ignorant.

If you have managed to acquire a GV and 2 pilot training slots and 1 AMT slot were not part of the deal, then you just do not know what you are doing and have no business being trusted with the logistics involved in the process. I would not use the analogy of finding a penny when trying to explain this to the primary, and you know that. I've been doing this long enough to know things like that. If you read my post you took away from it that I was commenting on how a lot of "old school" DOs operate, not the person writing the check. If you are looking at a GV, how much a type cost should not be a factor in getting it. It's the cost of doing business; period. If you want to play, you have to pay. Do you not want the pilots trained? Is that an area in which you want to cut corners? It sounds like your company looked at the GV and discovered that they could not resonably afford to operate it. There is no shame in that, but no reason to be bitter about it.

2) What other important 'projects' is a pilot working on? I don't know about you, but my job's pretty straight forward and defined.

My job and that of the other pilots working in the department have well defined duties as well. If your attitude is I am a pilot, so I only fly then I go home, well, that says a lot about you and your work ethic. Not that I think I owe you an explaniation, but I am going to answer your question in hopes of teaching you. Other important projects include, researching the use of EFBs, negotiation of fuel discounts, overflight permits, negotiating training contracts, stream-lining the operation to make it as efficient as possible, securing alternative uplift options in our most traveled cities, establishing safety procedures (on-going), revising our disaster plans, [font=&quot]continuity of management travel policies, [/font]policy revisions (spouse/dependent traveling with company on a space availabe basis, ect), and procurement of pilot tools such as laptops, cell phone, ect. just to name a few of the things that an operation the size of ours has to deal with. Do I need to go on? So yes, we like to see our pilots in the office from time to time. Is it required, no. Will you get fired if you don't come in, no. Do we care if you come in and do other projects, no. Will your bonus be multiplied by the # of days per week you average in the office, yes. Will your hard work get noticed, yes. If you ever leave us will you have the skills and confidence to run your own place, yes. Would we hire a pilot with an attitude like yours, No. Please send me your name and the names of your friends that are just like you so I can stay on the look out.
Ace

Fly safe

 

[semperfido]

My job and that of the other pilots working in the department have well defined duties as well. If your attitude is I am a pilot, so I only fly then I go home, well, that says a lot about you and your work ethic. Not that I think I owe you an explaniation, but I am going to answer your question in hopes of teaching you. Other important projects include, researching the use of EFBs, negotiation of fuel discounts, overflight permits, negotiating training contracts, stream-lining the operation to make it as efficient as possible, securing alternative uplift options in our most traveled cities, establishing safety procedures (on-going), revising our disaster plans, [font=&quot]continuity of management travel policies, [/font]policy revisions (spouse/dependent traveling with company on a space availabe basis, ect), and procurement of pilot tools such as laptops, cell phone, ect. just to name a few of the things that an operation the size of ours has to deal with. Do I need to go on? So yes, we like to see our pilots in the office from time to time. Is it required, no. Will you get fired if you don't come in, no. Do we care if you come in and do other projects, no. Will your bonus be multiplied by the # of days per week you average in the office, yes. Will your hard work get noticed, yes. If you ever leave us will you have the skills and confidence to run your own place, yes. Would we hire a pilot with an attitude like yours, No. Please send me your name and the names of your friends that are just like you so I can stay on the look out.
Ace[/b]

jeeez...thanks for reminding me how much i appreciate my terrible work ethic ps: drink more water

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Say old man......

G200--YOU YOUNG PUNK! Soon as I can find my glasses, my cane and hook up my Depends, I'll come over there and kick your a$$! TC

....didn't you take a viagra a couple of hours ago? Maybe you should just stay home tonight. You probably have better things to do!