Furloughs @ Big Sky

[Simon Says]

By the way, I don't want to see any of you guys out on the streets. Ideally I would like to see one big list. Big Sky and Mesaba. One big happy family.

 

[cathal]

Jose Whales, and the rest of you,
Jose, your posts have been good to up to that last one. Some of our prople here at XJ have said some dumb/innaccurate things on this thread, but I have to take issue with who's money is who's among other things.

So, the taxes you pay is the goverment's money, right? Just because someone has money doesn't mean the have the right to spend it however they please. If that were true, buying and selling any commodity would be legal, i.e. drugs, sex, weapons.
We are often legally, and always morally bound to see that money is spent in a productive, non-harmful way.

MAIR's money should be spent on those who earned it so that the earners can enjoy the fruits of their labor and company growth so that they can earn more. Ideally, the stockholders would earn money by actually risking some of their own capital and the labor force would earn money based on their own contribution to the profits. This is not what is happening.

We are watching our owners and management steal the money we earn them. Our leaders get enormous bonuses for the excellent service I and others provide. They then turn around and tell me that the $25,000 I earned last year was too much, that I need to give it back. Now, why would I want to give it back? So that our leadership can get larger bonuses and hide more of our profits in your losses? Are you beginning to understand why we don't like having you guys owned by MAIR? It was immoral of them to buy you with our money. We don't do our jobs for this reason, we do it for the reasons I stated in the previous paragraph, to earn ourselves more money.

As far as XJ folks living in a fantasy world, well, I have to say that it is a shame to think that you don't believe anyone can make a difference. Yes, this is Corporate America, where everything had been rosy enough. That is until the workers of this country realized that very few of our CEOs are truly leaders that we could depend on to look out for the best interests of their company, and therefore those that allow them their lifestyle. Where would we be without folks who didn't fight the tough fight and stand up for themselves when no one else would? I'm not going to give you a history lesson here, but the reason we have any rights at all is because someone has stood up for each of those rights. We are standing up for ourselves, no matter how hard that will be.

Please, enough with the ALPA bashing. No one who bashes them is remembering what ALPA has and will continue to do for all airline pilots. Please read the "Flying the Line" vols I and II again. Please note that the only reason we can go on strike is because we belong to them. Without ALPA, XJ could not fight this moral fight because other NW airlines would simply take our routes. Instead we are bound to support each other by not taking advantage of the fact that someone else is standing up for our rights. ALPA has its representation problems because pilots do have a hard time standing up for one another against their company, and pilots will take advantage of good times to get paid more than other pilots ( this includes me). Please tell me why you signed the contract that was signed? If you had stood up for one that was at least industry standard, we would have so much more respect for your group.

Long post summed up- ALPA has saved many more careers than it has lost. If it has problems, it is because of it's members, not it's concept. Big Sky has lost alot of the profits I have earned that I desevre a part of. Your contract was shameful. It said that any flying job is better than no flying job. We have almost no respect for your group or company because of these reasons. Individual flying skills are completely irrelevant to this, and taking it in the a@S isn't paying your dues, it's getting B@TTf@cked plain and simple. We're both experiencing that right now.

 

[Jose Whales]

Cathal,

Yes I agree that the money MA made for MAIR "SHOULD" be spent on who made it! Key word "SHOULD", as you put it. Not legally bound to do so.

Tom Wychor told me a story about how ALPA came into an airline to represent their pilot group, and because they were a small group and ALPA wanted to "...use them to set presidence for the rest of the ALPA community..." those pilots were forced to the street because of the company having to shut its doors. I cannot remember the specifics of the story, ask Mr. Wychor about that. Mr. Wychor told me this story just before I went and voted for this new contract, and it swayed the way I voted. I think it would have been the same for you. I am not ALPA bashing here but as you well know ALPA has a track record here that cannot be ignored.

I still cannot see how our contract is shameful. Is it because of the low pay for the Jets? Well I agree that it should be higher, however every Regional that has a United Express contract has taken concessions on their jet pay so that United can recover from bankrupsy protection with a sound business plan. We here at Big Sky cannot take the credit for that. There are several things in our contract that you call shameful in one breath, and in the next are trying to get added to your own contract.

Simon Says,
You need to go back and reread the Ralway and Labor act and I advise reading the self help paragraph again. You are taking it out of context. I would also reread the first paragraph of the act that defines employee representation of a collective barganing agreement and representation of an employment group by a Union that is in place.

Enough said on this! This post was to simply point out that we as pilots should act professional to a fellow Aviator that is or has been Furloughed. Not to discuss contract issues, slinging mud back and forth (at whitch I am guilty of)! It is unfortunate that the "we" you refer to has no respect for us as a pilot group or our company. I have lost respect for our company as well, but I have not nor will I ever loose respect for an individual for voting in a contract under the conditions we were under. I have nothing but respect for you, and your fellow aviators! Good luck on your contract negotiations, and I hope all can be resolved without a srike.

Jose Whales

 

[100LL... Again!]

Immoral, unethical, and stupid are three different things.

Cathal, if mesaba mgmt was really stealing from you, you could take them to court.

You simply are underpaid. That may constitute theft in your mind. From a big-picture cosmic view of right and wrong you may be correct.

However, the fruits of your labor are your paycheck. Don't like it? Negotiate more (which I know you are in the middle of) or quit. The company's profits belong to them. I don't like it either, but it is true.

Point is, mgmt has every LEGAL right to do what they do, whether it is "fair" or not.

I just grow tired of all the moralistic references that get used. It's just business. Many pilot groups have lost control of their compensation. That's just how it's going to be for a while. Hopefully, it will change someday. Blaming other pilot groups for our problems will fix nothing.

A scapegoat is a nice thing to have though.

 

[CWASaab]

Jose Whales,

I do realize that the money in the bank is in MAIR Holdings account. That doesn't change the fact that those funds were built from Mesaba Airlines. Having seen what MAIR Holdings can and will do (by this I am referring to buying BigSky) with that money I think it is time to exert some control. We can exert control through our contract, especially in terms of scope. As Simon Says mentioned, scope is a strikable issue for most all of us here at Mesaba. I believe this message has been taken directly to management, and we keep trying to send that message.

That means no contract with out the scope that achieves our goals. Therefore the company will have to sign if they ever want to resolve this mess. At this point the entire contract seems like a fantasy, but a contract without scope won't be worth a thing and won't get my vote. Scope is a must have.