Furloughs @ Big Sky

[fly4ever]

Just to clarify - Big Sky wsn't "rejected" by ALPA. When a pilot group contacts ALPA about the possibility of representation interest cards are distributed to those on the pilot list. These are supposed to be submitted to ALPA if there is an interest within the group. If enough of those cards come back to ALPA then they pursue further contact. Apparently, little interest was shown by the Big Sky pilots several years ago in regards to ALPA representation and ALPA did not pursue it further.

 

[12GO]

Just to clarify - Big Sky wasn't "rejected" by ALPA.

Actually, since there were only 35 pilots at the time, ALPA told them there weren't enough pilots to bother with even circulating the cards. The pilots then approached the IAM since the IAM was representing the mechanics, and that's when ALPA told the IAM they (ALPA) didn't want them (IAM) to represent a pilot group.

And so, the resourceful pilots at Big Sky found the United Transportation Union (UTU). The UTU offered the pilots at Big Sky a national affiliation with a great deal on knowledge and experience in the Railway Labor Act (the UTU is to the railroads what ALPA is to the airlines). The UTU welcomed the opportunity to represent a labor group in the transportation industry regardless of how many of them there were or how much dues they could collect.

When the UTU negotiates for the pilots at Big Sky they are not confused about who's "best interests" they are representing since Big Sky is the only airline they represent (I have often wondered why they (UTU) don't persue other airlines, but they call that raiding).

There are still some pilots at Big Sky who remember, so if you want to clarify anything, I suggest you (fly4ever) get your facts straight before you post!

 

[othello]

Fly4ever,
You are incorrect and your information false. I have talked to our XJ MEC President and he says flat out ALPA drop the ball and denied a pilot group the oppertuinity to join the Union, he has spoken to the individual at ALPA headquaters that made the choice to reject BS. It makes you wonder how many other small pilot groups have been turned down in the past.

The BigSky pilots then turned to the UTU and were taken in to a union that is more than double the size of ALPA.

Perhaps you should remove or edit your post.

 

[sf3boy]

Well, ALPA may have dropped the ball years back, but the Big Sky pilots did themselves no favors by not wanting to be on the seniority list at Mesaba. Good grief, I can't believe I am actually wasting time on this board arguing about freaking Big Sky with football on.

 

[kenai227]

Well, ALPA may have dropped the ball years back, but the Big Sky pilots did themselves no favors by not wanting to be on the seniority list at Mesaba. Good grief, I can't believe I am actually wasting time on this board arguing about freaking Big Sky with football on.

you are a bigger idiot than I gave you credit for.

a union has no hiring power. joining your sh!!!ty little list would have put the BSA guys out on the street that much faster.

wake up. that offer was nothing more than a saboteurs plan to spoil the negotiations. and it left tommy y corpes holding his own carrot.

 

[SilentDave]

Well, ALPA may have dropped the ball years back, but the Big Sky pilots did themselves no favors by not wanting to be on the seniority list at Mesaba.

It was never even offered. Please get your facts straight.
Love,
SilentDave

 

[12GO]

Thank you Othello, you seem to have reliable sources, and my respect for your MEC actually went up a notch when he acknowledged the error.

Silent Dave, this happened before your time!

 

[Metropilot]

Tom ,

I think Davey E. was posting in reference to the Mesaba seniority list.

 

[sf3boy]

The story that Mesaba pilots got was that our Union leadership went to Montana to work out a merger of the seniority lists. Mesaba management then told the Big Sky pilots that if you proceed with talking to XJ ALPA, we will shut down the whole operation. XJ ALPA was then told to go home by the Big SKy pilots. Is this not what happened? If it isn't, could someone please inform me of the truth. There seems to be a lot of people on this thread that know more details than me. BTW, is Big Sky's C.P. still the one that washed out at Atlas and then let go at Frontier? My buddy said that she might still be at Big Sky. Not trying to start a fight there either. Everyone knows that the Mesaba C.P.'s are somewhat less than "on the ball."

 

[SilentDave]

It sure as heck didn't happen before my time you punk. Talk about what you know, not what you don't WideA$$.

Here's my version of the story, you're mileage my vary. I commute into BIL for work. A buddy of mine picks me up at BIL International (thanks again PoleSurfer) and tells me of an informational meeting at the Brew Pub. He says that Mesaba wants to buy us and that some folks at the Brew Pub are buying dinner and have lots of neat info on how we get to keep our jobs (and feed our kids) AND be at the top of the seniority list of the next up and coming hot stuff commuter airline. The next thing I know is they're asking us to vote for this goofy contract. And this is from our own people. ALPA and the rest of the associated beer buying (thanks for that) twerps didn't even bother to show up until AFTER the vote was cast. Great timing guys. Then they decide to raise heck and print all kinds of nasty adds. in the Gazette and everything. Doh! But we did get lots of really cool ALPA stickers,which in our beer (thanks again) enlightened state were appiled all over our CEO's truck. Mesaba had nothing to do with shutting down Big Sky. We were doing a fine job on our own, thank you very much.

As for our previous chief pilot, it appears that she did run upon some bad luck. I have to admit that she was the most pro-pilot chief pilot I ever worked with. Too bad things didn't work out for her.

Any more questions, please PM me. I prefer to stick to my name, but you caught me a weak point (too much Shiner and Wild Turkey).
Love,
SilentDave

 

[100LL... Again!]

Why are you dragging someone's career history out when it has nothing to do with the topic?

What has this person ever done to you?

Tacky.

 

[12GO]

Thank you Metropilot,

and excuse me SilentDave! (who ahhhhh!)

I misunderstood your post. I thought the thread was refering to ALPA's rejection of Big Sky Airline (in the beginning). That was the acknowledgment made by Othello's MEC and was exactly what I was responding to.

I think you may have been confused.

ALPA's rejection of Big Sky Airlines did in fact occur before your time.

I will repectfully acknowledge the fact that ALPA's road show did occur much later, and I am sorry if you missed it.

Oh Well, get some counselling dude or get over it!

 

[SilentDave]

You're still clueless WidePunk. How did you detemine that was before my time? I WAS there when ALPA decided they didn't want us. It was late 98 or early 99. It wasn't that long ago. Once again- please refrain your comments to things you are informed about.
Love,
SilentDave

 

[Jose Whales]

How many is that? 2 maybe 3 planes???

You obviously need some professionalism manners! When a fellow Aviator is furloughed it is not a joking matter! There are 20 pilots that will be on the street without a job, along with an untold number of customer service agents, and mechanics, some have new born baby's that need formula, doctor visits and Pampers. Are you and your poor since of humor going to step up to the plate and offer to help them out? I think you should since you have not an ounce of professionalism in your bones. Did you see any jokes relayed from Big Sky Pilots about your Furloughs? I think not!


Quote from "Simon Says"

"I believe Masaba MEC gave Big Sky a chance to come onboard with us for a 1 for 1 seniority. Big Sky pilots would take a chance of losing it all for that one for one seniority, but also would work under our contract. We were strung along by the MEC of Big Sky. Masaba pilot group tried to tell them not to believe the lies of management. We were not heard.

Now do you believe us? By the way Scope is a shrinkable issue for Mesaba pilots. Do not believe for one second that we will sign a contract that does not include it. So guess where the remaining Big Sky pilots go on our list. At the bottom."

You’re definitely wrong! I spoke to your MEC and a 1 for 1 was not offered. I want you to tell me in all your infinite wisdom how a workforce that is protected under a collective bargaining agreement for the United Transportation Union (UTU, which by the way is MORE than three times the size of ALPA) can walk away from that agreement and go into an ALPA contract. Then I would like you to tell me if you would do it after ALPA turned your fellow pilot group down TWICE, not once, TWO SEPERATE TIMES!! Knowing full well that it would mean that you and your family would be unemployed in a matter of 2 months! I have a copy of your contract and there are a lot of things that you don’t have that we do. Things like awarded the trip paid for the trip, minimum daily guarantee, Duty Rig, Trip Rig, NO airport reserve. Premium pay, Draft pay, 28 day schedule with a guarantee of 8 days off. Further more we are the highest paid 19 seat turbo prop drivers out there! I would expect to be no where else but on the bottom of your seniority list, such as where you would be if you came here. Why would I go in front of someone else that has been at Masaba, “paying their dues” with respect to the company and their idiosyncrasies.

Quote from "sf3boy"

Wow, that was a lot man. Hope you feel a little better now. Were you a Lone Star guy? Aspen Air? Or were you one of the stellar Big Sky originals?

Again a lack of professionalism and knowledge on your behalf. The "...stellar Big Sky originals..." that you refer to are flying Metro III's and Metro 23's. Either aircraft would most likely eat you for lunch! Ask any former Metro Pilot, you might have to go to some of the major airlines and seek out the upper management. They know that it takes a real "stick and rudder" pilot to fly them. We hand fly these with no auto pilot at night around towering rock piles, slinging ice, in and out of class B, NDB approaches ILS’s to minimums, etc. And with the junior FO at Big Sky having over 2000 hours in the thing I'm sure you could learn a thing or two from him. Auto pilots and Flight director usage can be obtained in a book. Flying skills cannot! The Majors understand that, unfortunately you do not. It also is apparent that you have done nothing but fly at Mesaba, have you even done anything to pay your dues in the aviation business? Most likely the answer to that is NO! This is probably your first airline job, you have no other experience to speak from, you most likely went from flight instructor to FO at a Regional and now you think your a GOD and knowledge of how airlines are run.

The unprofessional that each and every one of you show to fellow Pilots is sickening! You should all take a step back and realize that it can happen to ANY ONE OF YOU!! You all should realize now that the Airline Industry is WAY TO SMALL of a world to be making selfish comments like these! You never know if the guy sitting to your right today could be the person that interviews you for a job tomorrow!

Jose Whales

 

[sf3boy]

Jose,
Yes, I did do something before Mesaba. I did not wake up one morning and decide I would start flying Saabs for Northwest Airlink. I instructed and flew night freight just like everyone else, so my flying skills are adequate. Again, I am neither glad or jubilent in anyone losing their job from poor management. As long as Mesaba owns Big Sky, you can expect more of that from the boys and girls in MSP.