furloughees going to regionals

[English]

Colgan has a two year training contract? Was a one year contract a few months back...

 

[DougCorp-9]

Last time I checked, dual citizenship, ie holding a seniority number at 2 seperate carriers was forbidden under the ALPA constitution and bylaws. You can't have your cake and eat it too. These pilots that would fly at a regional while still holding their mainline seniority could potentialy hold a position on the regionals MEC or some other position within that particular regional's union structure. This would be a conflict of interest since they really don't "hang their hat" at that company.

 

[Bluto]

As I understand it, holding a seniority number at two carriers is not forbidden. All of the Continental pilots that have flowed back to Continental Express maintain two separate seniority numbers. Continental Express is likely to be spun off completely from Continental mainline, shortly, and the CAL pilots on the COEX seniority list will still maintain their seniority at CAL. Additionally, as we have seen in previous posts, many other regionals are not requiring pilots to resign their seniority. Since this is going on quite a bit recently, and since many regional pilots are not happy about this, I would expect that we would hear from ALPA if this practice were truly against the bylaws. Now, could this affect the outcome of contract negotiations and other sensitive union business? I think so. COEX is gearing up for contract negotiations now, we'll see what happens with a few hundred CAL pilots on property and voting on the contract. It should be interesting.

 

[Marko Ramius]

Avi8tr, while I understand what you are saying in your post, it still does not answer the question that SDD and I were asking; why do some regional PILOTS want major airline furloughees do give up their numbers so badly? The reasons you gave certainly answer the question, if it was referenced to why management wants a resignation, but it doesn't answer the pilot question. DougCorp -9 brought up a good point about ALPA bylaws, although that would not apply to a furloughee from American or at carriers like Skywest. Personally, I don't think being a furloughee from another carrier automatically constitutes a conflict of interest, but that's another thread. Most of the regional pilots I talk to don't care about the resignation issue. Of those who do care, I'm sure there are many with legitimate issues like DougCorp-9 brought up, and some who unfortunately just like to see other people down. There are quite few things going on at levels far above us all that will likely make all of opinions irrelevant one way or another in a few months anyway.

 

[Bluto]

Ramius,
Maybe I can answer part of your question. I think many furloughed and hopeful regional pilots may feel some resentment that a few major pilots expect to take the sparse coveted regional jobs available in today's market while maintaining their seniority at their former airline. A good number of the regional pilots on furlough can expect to be on the street for a year or more. Many of those people would be more than willing to give up their seniority for the opportunity at a new job, and most would be required to. Can you explain to me why furloughed major pilots would be willing to fly at a regional for a year or more at $18-30/hour when it serves no real career-advancement purpose? Is it fair that furloughed major pilots may not be required to surrender their seniority, while furloughed regional pilots are? It seems to me, (and I am not in this exact situation, so my perspective is probably a bit different from yours) that for the furloughed major pilot, taking a non-flying, relatively high-paying job would be more beneficial than flying for a regional. Clearly, this statement does not apply to everyone. A major could, theoretically, cease operations with pilots on furlough. I can understand these pilots' desire to stay marketable.

Now, having said all of that, I will also say that these are not necessarily my opinions. I feel that if you are qualified for a position and willing to accept the consequences for taking that job, you have every right to apply and accept it. If the company allows you to maintain your seniority, great. If not, that is their choice, and you don't have to take the job. I think the regional pilots that simply enjoy seeing a "big-shot major pilot" on the street without options are few and far between, though there are probably some out there. For the most part, I think regional pilots want fairness, and equality. Additionally, I can see how some currently employed regional pilots might feel slighted that these "temporary" pilots might not take the job as seriously as they do, since they know they'll be gone soon anyway. Again, these are not my feelings, just some observations. I hope that you and all major and regional pilots are recalled shortly and that we can get back to less personal discussions. Good luck.

 

[Marko Ramius]

Bluto,

I can give you my reasons for wanting to work at a regional airline. First is the simple fact that I love to fly, yeah it's a lot of work sometimes, but I still love it. The other reason is purely economic. While many furloughees have gotten good paying jobs in other industries, many of us haven't been able to secure any of those jobs and are sitting around collecting unemployment. While I don't consider my lifestyle(house, car, etc)particularly extravagent, it certainly wasn't designed around unemployment income, so while I have savings I can see that unless I get a better source of income things will get tighter down the line. I'm not ex-military, so I don't have the option of going back into the service, and my degree is in aviation which doesn't exactly light up non-aviation employers eyes. Unemployment pays more than Burger King and similar jobs, so that's out as well. So I come back to what I do best, and what most people are willing to pay me for-flying airplanes. As far as major airline furloughees not doing a good job at a regional, because they have a number at major to go back to one day, I think that's unlikely. Those who don't want the job probably won't apply for it in the first place. I'm sure that there would be slackers, but every airline has those anyway-you can't weed them all out. That's more of an innate personality thing than a background thing.

 

[avi8tr]

Hi again friends,

This is just a small reply to all that have kept this discussion going. Yes! Colgan does now require a two year commitment. I have a friend that works there and he told me that some of their existing Colgan pilots have jumped ship to other carriers, and that the company is pursuing legal action against them. Just a word to the wise.

To respond to the resentment issue, there probaly is alot of animosity towards these people. It boils down to fairness, but hey, business is not fair, and there is nothing we can do about it. The guy's that are already flying for the regionals are not going to care one way or another, and I wouldn't either. This is a time where the exec's are making up the rules as they go along. Whether it is a conflict of interest or not, doesn't matter. Management looks at all of this as a short term solution to thier needs. They are going to do what they think is the most cost efficient, and most practical, for the given time at hand.

I guess ultimately, giving up that number would very much depend on the company you worked for. If you do the math, then you know that there are only so many available regional positions. I suspect then, your'e going to have to be a rated astronaut before anyone will hire you! Just kidding! but you know what I'm talking about.

Your friend,

Av8ter

P.S. I harbor no resentment towards our furloughed brothers, you just have to do, what is best for you!. Good luck!

 

[racerX]

"Can you explain to me why furloughed major pilots would be willing to fly at a regional for a year or more at $18-30/hour when it serves no real career-advancement purpose? "

Ramius said it right. If you love to fly, then you will do it anywhere. Raise your hand if you would rather flip burgers than fly for a regional. No...on second thought, just quit and make room for someone else.

 

[avi8tr]

A reply to Ramius,

Yes! he had it right when he said "he just loves to fly" me too! for the last five years I have been doing other type work, and made money. I just wasn't happy doing anything, other than wanting to get back to flying airplanes.
It's in our blood, and very few outsiders can relate or understand our need. That's why we try so hard and make so many sacrifices. I will keep trying to get hired, and then will be satisfied with my life.

Av8ter.

 

[ual727fo]

Regionals that don't want your number

Does anyone know of a list of the regionals that are not requiring a furloughee to give up his/her seniority at a major. Thanks!