furloughees going to regionals

[Humty72]

Allegheny is one.

 

[Clownpilot]

Lawyer?

Wait a minute.
How did a lawyer get on this board?
I thought we killed off all the lawyers that are trying to be pilots as well.

Guess not.
You know what?
You can stay.

I read this entire bitch session made up of some of the most illiterate posts I have ever read and realized that this profession has some tools that ain't the sharpest ones in the shed.

Maybe it's better that they fight amongst themselves rather than having jobs and subjecting themselves to the general public. On the other hand, I've flown with some Captains that couldn't spell their own names and they were ok. Hmmmmmmm.

Ah forget it, let's just kill the lawyer.

So many grammatical errors; it is not possible to correct them all. Not just yours, avi8tr, but many of the posts on this forum are difficult to read because of the poor writing.

"They're" is an abbreviation for "they are." "Their" refers to something belonging to someone else. (It is spelled "t h e i r".) A necktie that needs to be tightened is "loose." I can "lose" a hand of poker - not "loose" a hand.

"It's" is short for "It is." "Its" is possessive. A dog bites its tail.

Please proof your posts.

Since I am a lawyer, let me answer the question. As long as an employer does not discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sex and all the other categories proscribed in the EEOC legislation, they can, in all likelihood, discriminate as Humblepilot asks. Bad policy is not necessarily illegal.

 

[Boz]

PILOTS FLY PLANES

and,

we ain't very good ats speling and all.

 

[gns2005]

ALPA v. ALPA

This is what happens when the same blasted union "represents" all parties involved. It's like having the same lawyer argue both sides of the case. Who's going to win? The one with the money. (Or in this have paid the most dues over time, since most regionals have a much larger market value than USAir right now anyway).

It seems that most USAir guys understand they are in a pickle and would be happy to fly again and hold their seniority number and call back rights. MEC is deciding that they can bully the express carriers into putting the USAir pilots in as CPT's, above current pilot's on the seniority list, etc. I think the USAir guy's should ask their representatives to chill out and get them some flying jobs with a little class and consideration for those of us choosing to work for airlines that are still making some money.

New hire status and you can keep your seniority number at USAir. What's wrong with that?

Oh yeah, we need a union that represents the interest of regionals, NOT majors while we work for a regional, but that's another story.

gns2005

 

[macdaddy]

gns2005 is right on the money. It IS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST for ALPA to try to represent WO regional pilots and "major airline" pilots. Duane Woerth doesn't seem to get it. Regionals are not a "B" scale; they are a C- scale. Less pay than a B scale, no retirement and 60% health insurance coverage. It is a joke. That is exactly why all the major airline bigwigs are sucking up every CRJ and ERJ they can get their greasy hands on. ALPA needs to pull their head out from where the sun does not shine and start getting pay and benefits commensurate with the majors. Not the same pay; the planes are smaller. They need to have the same effective cost per seat mile. Take away the slave labor profit. Once that happens the fight and animosity is over between regional and major pilots.
Clownpilot: I'm furloughed from a regional right now and I will be a major airline pilot eventually, whenever the hiring starts up again. I'm a good pilot and I know many people in many of the right places. The only difference between you and me is that God gave me a brain and you got the 20/20 vision. Without the 20/20 I could not get into the AIR FORCE after college. You know, I can even fly formation without three mile separation. Don't mess with lawyers. Guys like you lose every time.

 

[ACE]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't the ALPA by-laws prohibit a pilot from having two seniority #'s at two ALPA carriers. I personally don't mind if furloughees come to Comair, but give up your seniority number. Why should you have your cake and eat it too. If I was furloughed from Comair would Delta give me a job until I went back to Comair? (this is just an example and yes i do have the minimums for Delta). For the regional pilots, if your company hires all these furloughees it is great for a while. You will not be at the bottom of your seniority list at your company anymore. However, what happens when they are recalled? YOU GO BACK TO THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST. So ask yourselves where you benefit.

 

[ifly4food]

Please end the grammar discussion and resulting flames, and put this thread back on topic or I will be forced to close it.
Ifly4food
Moderator

 

[meanstreak]

Yes, it will be another sad day in aviation if companies like Trans States, Mesa and Chataquah let US Airways Mailine pilots on their property just so they can fly more regional jets. Hopefully your companies let the pilots vote, and not make management make the decision for you. I can't imagine being at the top of the seniority list at one of these copmanies and know I will be bumped down so a Mainline pilot can come in and take my Capatain seat and knock my seniority number in the toilet. Those guys had plenty of opportunity to accept a flow through agreement with the wholly owneds many times before, but they cotinuiously turned them down. Why, who really knows. Was it managments fault or was it the pilots fault, both sides will tell you it wasn't there fault.

 

[avi8tr]

Hi guy's,

I agree with the moderater, let's stop all this nonsense about grammatical errors, spelling, proper diction. We're all smart enough to have passed those writtens, and check rides, and to made it this far. What's really important is to try to help each other through this tough time of trying to find a job. I started this thread with the hopes of creating a dialog to understand how this business really works. It is like a huge chess game, and we're all pawns.

Your friend,

Av8ter.

P.S. Macdaddy, are you going back into law? Just curious why you are choosing regional flying over the legal game.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

In the USAir deal, the USAir pilots will come in at the bottom of the seniority list. They will be able to hold captain, temporarily, as they have more hours than those on the bottom of the list, but as the "old" TSA/Chautauqua pilots, etc., build up hours, they will go capt and the USAir guys will be on reserve a long time.

Their benefit will be they'll be on the TSA/Mesa, etc. pay scale at the rate of their years of service at USAir.

This is a very interesting proposal, and we'll see what happens. I hope it benefits all of the companies involved, over time.

PS-USAir is offering a 50% flow through to USAir if/when they hire again. Some people have criticized this, but it's better than no other added benefits to the regional pilot groups.

Cliff
GB,WI

 

[psyops]

I heard from a friend of mine at PDT that the three WOs are considering giving the Airways furloughees some reciprocal treatment.... in the form of the same $75.00 application fee they charged the WO pilots!

 

[surplus1]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't the ALPA by-laws prohibit a pilot from having two seniority #'s at two ALPA carriers. I personally don't mind if furloughees come to Comair, but give up your seniority number. Why should you have your cake and eat it too. If I was furloughed from Comair would Delta give me a job until I went back to Comair? (this is just an example and yes i do have the minimums for Delta). For the regional pilots, if your company hires all these furloughees it is great for a while. You will not be at the bottom of your seniority list at your company anymore. However, what happens when they are recalled? YOU GO BACK TO THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST. So ask yourselves where you benefit.

ACE, I don't think you're right on this. The ALPA C&BL does not address the issue of dual seniority and the Administrative manual doesn't either. In other words, it is not specifically prohibited.

Having said that, there are many issues that are not covered directly in ALPA. Some of them, like this double seniority issue, should be of particiular concern to regional pilots. For example, if a large group of pilots from another airline should come to your airline and retain their seniority at the old carrier, within a year those pilots will be voting on issues that affect you and would even be able to hold elective office in your MEC. If their allegiance is to another airline, particularly one who's interests are different from yours, this could pose a real problem for you. While not prohibited, dual seniority may be a very bad idea.

As for the idea that newly hired pilots from another airline should be inserted as Captains in your airline, regardless of whether they have one or two seniority numbers, that's garbage. IMO, you would be extremely foolish to allow that.

It is good that ALPA is trying to find jobs for furloughed pilots. Inserting them as Captains in a percentage of another airline's equipment is a gimmick. If USAirways pilots do not want to allow more RJs in their system, that's their business. However, if you let them take 1/2 or even one of the new vacancies you may get due to the addition of new equipment at your own airline, you are letting them take you to the cleaners. You can bet they would NOT do this for you and you should NOT do it for them.

As soon as you allow that, you are denyiny promotion for an equal number of First Officers at your own airline. That should NOT happen. If they are hired, they should go to the bottom of your list (like any other new hire) and should be required to bid for vacancies in accordance with their seniority.

You should never sacrifice any part of your seniority rights in exchange for anything! If your Company is going to buy new equipment, then YOU should fly it. ALL of it.

My advice is simple: Do not negotiate away any of your rights for equipment that you do not have. You will live to regret the day that you do that.

No company cares which pilot flys its aircraft as long as he/she is qualified. They buy new airplanes to make money, not to give pilots jobs.

The USAirways MEC (assisted by ALPA) is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. You need to make that union represent YOUR interests too, not just the interests of USA pilots.

 

[FlyingSig]

Surplus1,

Believe it or not, I agree with 95% of your post. I just don't see how letting USAir folks get any left seat position can benifit the regional carriers at all. Even if you make it a flow-thru and give regional guys numbers in this case, you are displacing - or in this case with growth airplanes - preventing upgrades and movement of people who came to work for a company without such an agreement (unlike the CoEx and Eagle furloughees who accepted employment knowing the flow-thru/back was already a negotiated agreement).

The 5% I disagree with is the conspiracy theory that somehow mainline pilots who are employed by a regional would conspire to gain control of the MEC, etc.. The people who go to work on the bottom of a regional list are there because they want to fly. You become part of the pilot group you are flying with and would most likely "vote" like everyone else on a new contract should they take part in that - more money, better work rules, etc... Pilots don't get to vote on airplanes or routes and other "conflicts" between mainline and the regional affiliate.