Furloughees gettin a 737 type via WIA

[flyn96]

Hey quick question for a soon to be furloughed Mesaba pilot (yea I know every other regional is growing so why isn't Mesaba)anyway, I want to take advantage of being unemployed and use the WIA to get my 737 type. Just wondering if anyone else has done this? If so with who FTI or HPA??? and what was your experience like??? Any help would be great to get the ball rolling!

Thanks All

 

[vclean]

I used WIA about a year ago to attend HPA's course. HPA has an excellent program. K&S have also received good marks. WIA funds may be difficult to get as some states are refusing to fund type ratings due to a weak pilot hiring outlook, and some WIA funds are exhausted. Additionally SWA recently dropped the 73 type requirement to apply/interview.

Good luck,

 

[vclean]

Southwest changed their policy about a month ago. They no longer require the type to apply and interview. If you are offered a position, you have 6 months to obtain the 73 type. They have now added a currency requirement.

Check their website for more info.

http://www.iflyswa.com/careers/pilots.html

 

[man-down]

I went to HPA Dec 2001 thru Jan 2002 (Happy New Year).

Great People, Great Place. If the state will not allow you to get a 737 type try for a biz jet. You may need an employeer to commit to a job after getting the type. Good leverage for the employeer to hire you over the other guy and even Part Time should work. Maybe the State does not need to know that.

If you live in one state and work in another you can apply to both states (only allowed to use one though) and take the best for you. At least when I went through that is how it worked.

Good luck. It is not as bad as I had expected, great amount of time home with the family. There are jobs out there. My buddy just hired on part time flying a citation 8 days / month for $40,000.

 

[ukipilot]

O.K., Call me stupid, but what is "HPA" and "WIA". I too am out of work and would like more details, I have never done this and would like more info on the whole deal, like where to apply and where to get the training

Thanks

 

[vclean]

HPA - Higher Power Aviation. A B737 training center (part 142) based in Dallas.

WIA - Workforce Investment Act. Federally funded program to assist displaced workers learn new skills and employment.

WIA funds were available to pilots furloughed as a direct result of 9/11. Each state administered their own program, therefore some states' benefits were higher than others. Illinois granted $6,000 toward a type rating. I believe Pennsylvania was $8,000. Florida $3-4,000, etc.

This year funding has been difficult to obtain, since pilot hiring is still slow. If you were furloughed from a 121 carrier that is on a state's covered list you may still be able a get some funding. Check with your unemployment office.

 

[KigAir]

SouthWest requires a 4 year degree. Is this the norm in the industry?

 

[flx757]

SouthWest requires a 4 year degree. Is this the norm in the industry?

Actually, if you read SWA's requirements, it says 4-year degree from an accredited university preferred.

This is the norm in the industry, and with competition for jobs as keen as it is today, a 4-year degree is virtually a must to be competitive.

 

[EMU]

I have been working to get WIA funds to get a 737 type. From my experience and in talking to others that have gone through the process, the key is selling the idea to your employment counselor. My counselor was hesitant at first because of sluggish airline hiring and that it seemed that it would only help me get on with SWA.

Also some states have already used up all of there WIA funds for the year. I don't know if JAN1 they get more?

In addition, some venders are not approved in some states. I originally planed to attend FSI, (Shari is awsome to work with), but they are not approved yet in my state.

PM me if you hav specific Q's I'll be glad to help!

EMU

 

[b757driver]

I got funding through the WIA & administered through the State of NV back in Jan 2003.
Yes, the counselor is important in the process & after thinking which aircraft I wanted to do it on, chose the 737 because I have VG hours on several models plus have it on two other ICAO licenses.
I did the course with PremAir @ their facility in MCO, trained on the 737-800 and did a PIC Initial Type Rating all in 15 straiight days and got current plus all the fancy certificates. Cost to the taxpayer: $13,495. Did it do me any good? Nope, still looking for a job - any job. Got a nice ATP now with three different Boeing types and no longer current on anything. It must be worst than I thought out there! Still, someone else paid for my type, so @ least I did not lose the investment also. Losing your job for the umpteenth time through no fault of your own and then not even get your foot in the door having gotten another (supposedly) VG type rating really sucks....

PremAir instructors were fine but I would NOT recommend the company - the others are far better and provide all kinds of extras that PremAir does not. Basically, they take yr money and run, no placement assistance or refreshers of any kind. Much better to stick with either K & S or HPA. Take it from someone who knows!!

Good luck in finding the funding - it's prob much harder now than a year ago. Alternatively, I'll sell you mine for half price!!!

 

[metrodriver]

I was approved for it but then the state gave the program to some private management company and they have a list my furlough company is not on. It's amazing. Some guys I flew with already used the program when the state still had it, and now someone who doesn't know a bit about aviation is making up a list of 'preferred companies'. If I would have been working for Budget car rental, I could have had a type by now. They're on the list! Of course e-mails and phone calls are not being returned.

 

[tathepilot]

Must you be furloughed from an airline to receive wia funding?

 

[b757driver]

No - you don't need to be furloughed. I was laid off when my airline went bust after 2+ years in Chap 11 BK. Any pilot whose company no longer requires his/her services for whatever reason (provided it's downsizing, of course) can apply.
Unfortunately, it is a somewhat subjective process - just like who gets an airline interview and who does not. The scheme - WIA - is a federal program but administered by individual states and then agencies within those states who have the so-called "approved" lists.
The key is to get in quick, get a good counselor who is sympathetic to your cause and one you can work with and then you have to convince them why you need it. A year ago, it was relatively simple. I got in quick after my layoff with others and started jumping thru hoops and filling out paperwork, attending mandatory orientations and tests. At that time the pot was full and it is done on a first come first served basis. I got 100% fundin but as the pot dried others only got 75-80% and then it finally dried up and there was no money left. I don't know the situation now.
Just like getting an airline interview and then getting hired, you have to be persistent. If you find the counselor you have can't tell the difference between a B737 and a C150, you need someone else. Apply in another state, if you are eligible. Collect job postings to back up your case - the more the merrier. Another idea is check your spam mail for those "free government grants available" like Mathew Lesko. These prob require an up-front fee and you do most of the research work.
I had a choice between B737, B747-400 and Gulfstream IV to choose from. While the latter two would have been nice, I chose the B737 for the reasons given earlier. Besides I don't think I could sell them on the idea that the G-IV would cost $28,000!!! I don't think anyone got approved for that unless you had real time on the aircraft plus a "I promise to hire John Doe" letter from a potential employer.
I agree, one of the concerns with the program is which training organization is on the "approved" list. Of course, it's great business for the training schools but they are NOT all equal. While my course and instructors were fine, there never was any kind of feedback or job placement assistance. The sum total of PremAir's "help" was giving student's a handout of all the B737NG/BBJ operators in the world. This turned out to be about two years out of date. Also, their sister company in SEA, Global Aircraft Delivery "were always looking for qualified and current BBJ/737 Captains and FOs" that PremAir students would get preferential hiring consideration and this (ferry/delivery)work would be ideal for "the furloughed, unemployed or retired airline pilot". After 6 months trying to get a foot in the door with them, I found out that this was all B.S. That's why I would not go back - even for a refresher, nor can I recommend them. The others, from what I have heard are FAR better.
Keep trying & good luck

b757driver

 

[tathepilot]

thanks for the info!!

 

[Hansoma]

Has anybody gotten WIA benefits from Washington State? If so, could you give me the low-down? Thanks

 

[b757driver]

Myth #1: If you get a type rating, it will help you be more marketable/competitive


Sorry for being the bearer of bad news but those WIA funds for type ratings are going to be thing of the past, if not already.

Reason: Hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not a few million, were doled out by various states for out-of-work pilots to make themselves more marketable. Not surprisingly, many training organizations saw this as a golden opportunity to make money at taxpayer's expense - Uncle Sam always pays up no matter what!
People were approved, did the training and got their ratings.....BUT.....very few actually got jobs with their "new" certifications. And, as in any business or govt dept, you have to justify cost ie. you expect RESULTS.

Since this whole program is dedicated in helping unfortunate folk find gainful employment, it is not unreasonable to expect maybe a small minority to have gotten work as a result of their training. Well, it seems this has NOT been the case.

So now, most states require a signed letter stating an offer of employment contingent on getting a specific type rating. Note it is a specific letter, not even a provisional offer but a definite offer. Is this Catch-22 or what? What airline/company is going to do that when the norm is to not respond to resumes/cover letters and applications?

I am not the least bit surprised. Apparently some training organizations have been cashing in on "free" govt. money by actively soliciting guys/gals who obtained WIA funding with "promises" of job "assistance/placement/preferences" if they came to their establishment for the rating. It is now a well-known fact that any company touting this angle, is doing so for your business and has no wish to go beyond a purely financial transaction.

How do I know? Because I did all this a year ago and was left hanging - AFTER I had chosen the training provider. My sum total post training help was an out-of-date list of 737/BBJ operators in the world - a list anyone can located on the net. I guess you live and learn.

Good luck to all those that are trying but a few have made it next to impossible for the rest of us.

 

[Mr.B]

It seems you have been in aviation long enough to know (should know) that nothing is a sure thing.

The vast majority of the pilots I know that got the B737WIA type did it for one reason- Southwest. They are not hiring new guys( yet) but when they do, and when we get hired, we'll be sure to let Uncle Sam know it was money well spent.

As my old man said, and as I have had to do several times in this crazy career, quit yer sniveling and get on with it.

 

[b757driver]

Yes, my friend, I know more than most (after 5 layoffs in 12 years) that there IS no sure thing, especially in aviation.

However, I did not do it for SWA - I'm not interested in them as they have another "mandatory" requirement that I do not meet and never will, so why bother? Frankly, I'm not going to wait for ever. I'm a realist and I call a spade a spade. I used to be like you and say, oh well. That sounds so British, just don't make a fuss!!

I just get a bit miffed when they all purport to have various mission statements saying we want you and we value this and that. Bottom line: it's all B.S. !!

I'm only pointing out the inadequacies of this career and some of the scams. People have a right to know. You may accept your lot but a lot of others don't; it's there in the statistics - there's more pilots out of work in the US than at any time in the history of aviation. I for one, am not proud of that fact. My type rating WAS a complete waste of resources - you tell me what good it did me?

Get on with it? You bet I am and it ain't in aviation! In fact, I am out of aviation for good and am a much happier person for it. I have found a satisfying second career that truly values and recognises talent. And best of all, they are a demand occupation with no layoff history.

There comes a time when it is not the individual who has given up on the career but rather, the other way around. When you reach that point, it no longer makes a difference if you are all rah rah and wait to ride out the storm. For me 5 layoffs with no hope the last time, despite phenomenal efforts, tells me it's time to quit. For you, it may take 8 or 10 layoffs before you change your tune. Or...you may get lucky and never have misfortune in your career again. And if that is the case, more power to you.

Like I said, I am pointing out the pitfalls of the airline business. Everybody hypes it up - just go to one of those wannabe Air Inc. seminars. My message is simple. There is currently and for the forseeable future more down side than up side to this business.

 

[LoopsLL]

furloughees getting 737 types

Hi~ I've been furloughed from Hawaiian since October 1st and the state of Washington has NO budget for any type of retraining. I'd be interested to hear what you find out.

Loops

 

[Hagar17]

WIA in Illinois???

Anybody have any info on getting WIA money for IL? I live in another state (based at ORD) and I'm getting furloughed on 2 Mar. I have a potential job offer to fly a Westwind I.

Any info would be appreciated.

Hag