Full Pay To The Last Day!!

[neflyguy]

Hi,

Like everyone else, I will go to the road shows and listen to what they have to say. That said, I will vote no, and hope that my fellow ACA pilots are strong enough to do the same;

1. Every aviation analyst says the same thing! The demand for regional jets over the next ten years is outwieghed by supply!!
Just look at industry newsletters, and independent sources. The Aviation Daily for starters. ACA will continue to fly regardless of the United situation the only question is for who. Regional carriers have been and are still listed as a "strong buy".

2. United could not afford to loose us right now, just listen to the Presidents hotline. United went crying to the courts to make sure we will not leave them in the near future!!

3. Five years is a long time, I will not ask my family to make more sacrifies than they allready have. I would rather be furloughed and come back to decent pay and work rules than lower the bar for the next 10 years. And yes I have allready been furloughed by another carrier, so I DO KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE!!!

4. ACA is still making money, (and alot at that) we have alot of money in the bank. We are a long way from chapter 11 of 7. Remember when other carriers labor groups have made concesions, they have been in or close to chapter 11!!!

5. I am one of the many underapaid FOs. Someone in the crewvan made the statement that the TA doesn't really affect FOs!! I have yet to meet a career FO at this company, we are going to upgrade at somepoint, it may take longer than in the past, but when we do we should be compensated appropriatetly.
I give props to every ACA captain I've flown with, you are not overpaid, so please do not sell yourselves short!!

6. Again in the Presidents hotline, I will not quote him but he did talk about this money going from our pilots pockets to Uniteds and there investors. United was pretty quick to pull my travel benefits, and WYOs. I AM EXPECTED TO TAKE MONEY FROM MY POCKET TO HELP THEM OUT NOW!! I do not think so. Before I even consider concesiond, they can give me back my and my familys meager travel benefits.

7. We are furloughing pilots and we are incredibly short staffed in the FRJ right seat. We have cancelled flights due to crew shortages. Ask any reserve FRJ FO or better yet ask the FRJ management pilots how much flying they've had to do over the last several months.

8. If Uniteds business plan can not make them money, they need to change their plan, not look for a minor partner with the expectations of saving them.

9. The CRJ carrot. Make no mistake about it, we will get 700s regardless if it is what makes sense for ACA or our partners.
Ask any Eagle pilot they signed their 16 year agreement with the hope of becoming an all jet fleet. As they realized, and the industry proved, they would become an all Jet Fleet regardless.

10. We have always been treated as two different pilot groups. Every time something has been offered to the Delta side (ie travel cards or crew meals), the response from management has been "Our United side doesn't get that, so thank you, no". Now I'm suppose to vote yes to help them out??? I'm I the only one who sees this!!

Do not lower the bar, keep this profesion strong. Even if we loose the UNITED flying, ACA will continue to fly for one of the many Majors or National carriers that are allready eyeing us. By voting no, force them to change there business plan, and pay us a livable wage!!

Thanky you,
I will gladly work my a**S of for this company unitl the last day, (as i did at my last carrier) who by the way is still around has recalled all of their pilots and is doing very well. As I said before "FULL PAY TO THE LAST DAY!!!!"

 

[Andy Neill]

When is the vote?

 

[Machdog1]

ok

Hey another commutair pilot, I think, about your full pay to the last day I sightly disagree with you. Where as your right a pay cut we do not need, if anything we need a pay increase, but that is not going to happen. If you vote no could ACA be in real big trouble? could we all lose our jobs? We don't really know. If your willing to risk that and put your family in greater trouble that is your choice. If you are from commutair, after you got furloughed how easy it was to find a job again, do you think it will really be that easy again? Look all in all in my eyes and I know other peoples eyes the TA is not that bad. Lets say that it passes and your an FO with the company. We get more a/c are pilots get called back we actually hire and you upgrade on the jet because you voted yes to the TA, could it happen, maybe? But you didn't know that because you voted no!! Look all I am saying is try to have a open mind alittle. Too many pilots in this company are just shouting out no with not entirely thinking about the situation. If I am wrong then you can go work some where else and make more money like I here everybody saying who is going to vote no, if I am right well the benefits speak for them self if your willing to accept them or call them benefits, consider that also.
Thanks!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I hope your pay increases, as it very well should...

but do you SERIOUSLY think any airline "NEEDS" you right now???

good luck.

 

[Publishers]

money in the bank

To just bring up a point I see all the time.

Our carrier is not in danger right now for Chapter XX and has money in the bank.

That is nice but totally irrevelant. If the day after September 11, United's labor and suppliers ahd walked in the door and taken what they are getting now, United would have money in the bank and not be in court.

The fact is that a major adjustment took place, effects everyone, and no one company is immune. To be competitive in the new playing field, changes will be made.

The trouble is the menatality that drives these companies to the brink of extinction before they can get what they needed before. Had everyone responded at the time, there most likely have been a lesser cut taken by everyone or less furloughs.

This raise and lower the bar stuff is not doing anyone at all any good at all. Ultimately, including now, the customer is the one who does that.

 

[neflyguy]

and how much of a tax refund did the airlines (ACA included) get, two weeks ago??
I believe that Uniteds was over 300 million...

That is not talked about too much during negotiations, is it?

 

[j41driver]

10. We have always been treated as two different pilot groups. Every time something has been offered to the Delta side (ie travel cards or crew meals...

Were travel cards actually offered to the Delta side at one time? I was on the 41 when all of that was going on.

 

[WhiteCloud]

do you SERIOUSLY think any airline "NEEDS" you right now???

Sure, there are plenty of good pilots out looking for work but airlines "need" exceptional pilots that can be good managers, teachers, mentors and problem solvers. Unless it's in something concrete like fuel costs it's hard to measure how much an exceptional pilot can contribute to an airlines well being. Airlines have the "need", but do they care?

 

[canadflyau]

I think airlines need something they have invested lots of money in... They couldn't afford a revolving door of pilots, the time and money that they have invested in every pilot is just that, an investment.

ACA/regional pilots are the last sector that should even be considering a pay cut..

This raise and lower the bar stuff is not doing anyone at all any good at all. Ultimately, including now, the customer is the one who does that.

I disagree. The reason we have contracts is it does benefit the airline mgt. They have the ability to account for the expenses of operating (pilot pay included) and come up with an economically viable business plan.. Instead their business plan is not viable, and they lower the bar to the customer when they price to the customer and makes it terrible difficult to raise back up.

Does no one realize that airline ticket prices have continued to drop over the last few years, while inflation didn't take a break. The airline mgts have brought on many of their own revenue problems. Its tragic when you are flying the same break even load factors from 3 years ago, and losing millions a day. Making tough decisions is what upper mgt gets paid the big bucks for... right?

 

[c152]

Full pay until last day I heard that at USair. If the Pilots kept that attiude they would all (USAIR) be on the street. The arrogance at ACA blows me away. The pilot group at ACA has grown and very few guys remember the hard times. The industry is in flex. Unless the ACA pilot group comes to grip with it they, will just vote themselves out of a job. If the pilot group or individual pilots were so smart why are you not running the SHOW!!!! It is easy to sit here and read some B.S postings and think that you know the whole industry.

I love the fact that ACA will take there planes and will not play. Open your eyes UAL is in Chapter 11. Do you think that the Judge will let ACA do that. HELL NO, he will ORDER ACA to continue to fly until another airline can take ACA's place. So you may keep your full pay for another 2 years top. Oh have fun going backwards towards reserve and see the death slowly comming. ASk the guys at ALG and PDT how they like it? I wish some of these guys will start opening there eyes. Wake up start looking at this objectively. Some of these guys talk like they would cut there nose off to spite there face. We will see when the vote comes.

 

[WhiteCloud]

I Open your eyes UAL is in Chapter 11. Do you think that the Judge will let ACA do that. HELL NO, he will ORDER ACA to continue to fly until another airline can take ACA's place.

Maybe the judge can get his pilot's licence and fly them around himself.

 

[j41driver]

When is the vote?

Road shows first June 2nd(?) through the 12th. Polls open on 6/12 and close on 6/19 at 1000.

 

[j41driver]

The arrogance at ACA blows me away. The pilot group at ACA has grown and very few guys remember the hard times. The industry is in flex. Unless the ACA pilot group comes to grip with it they, will just vote themselves out of a job.

Are you an ACA pilot?

 

[100LL... Again!]

Comparing regional pilots holding the line on pay to pilots at the majors doing the same is amazing. If you do not understand the difference, you need a couple years in the right seat of a turboprop to enlighten you.

I suppose you would just 'love to fly'.

Glamour don't feed the bulldog.

 

[AirBoard]

The arrogance at ACA blows me away. The pilot group at ACA has grown and very few guys remember the hard times. The industry is in flex. Unless the ACA pilot group comes to grip with it they, will just vote themselves out of a job.

Arrogance, ARROGANCE! ACA can continue the race to the bottom or show some balls and maintain the dismal pay regionals make. Sounds like the Mesa style bend over!

And BTW, with concessions, ACA's pilot concessions will save the company a whopping total of 9 freakin' million dollars over 365 days - United loses that in 2 days - yeah that ought to help them out! Sounds like some extra bonus money for execs, that's about it.

I vote NO NO NO!

 

[CRJ puppy]

originally by c152....

"The arrogance at ACA blows me away. The pilot group at ACA has grown and very few guys remember the hard times. The industry is in flex. Unless the ACA pilot group comes to grip with it they, will just vote themselves out of a job. If the pilot group or individual pilots were so smart why are you not running the SHOW!!!! It is easy to sit here and read some B.S postings and think that you know the whole industry."


Me thinks, either:

1.) c152 is trying to "bait" us

or

2.) He/she is a complete a$$ who has no idea what ACA is all about...

 

[Speedtree]

I can't see the future but I would be curious which airlines you think you would feed if you lost the United contracts? Which airlines out there are looking for or need a major feeder/commuter airline with the amount of pilots ACA has?

 

[DarnNearaJet]

I am perfectly willing to call management's/UAL's bluff. I am not willing to work for a penny less and I will not be part of the "race to the bottom."

Five years from now when Mesa is flying UEX 90-seaters on my old routes for food-stamp wages, I will be laughing -- and shaking my head in disgust.

There has got to be a limit to how low pilots will go just to fly a freakin' airplane.

 

[AirBoard]

There has got to be a limit to how low pilots will go just to fly a freakin' airplane.

You got that right. I'd rather work at Home Depot and be home everynight then take a 7.5% cut from my meager 35K salary.

 

[AirBoard]

I can't see the future but I would be curious which airlines you think you would feed if you lost the United contracts? Which airlines out there are looking for or need a major feeder/commuter airline with the amount of pilots ACA has?

Who cares. If they want us to do it for Mesa type wages count me out!

No NO NO NO

 

[tarp]

Hey Publishers!

Your a good capitalist like me. The customer drives the price to a degree. But it is just simple supply and demand.

Now granted, aviation has boatloads of supply. So they are lowering costs including my salary. But guess what - why should I fly a Jet - suffer long hours away from home - put up with pathetic work rules that push me to the FAA limits of fatigue?

So I opt out - I vote "NO" to ACA. If I lose my job - so what - I'm not driving a multi-million dollar piece of equipment for peanuts. I can just as easily go down the street to Home Depot, to Radio Shack, to my local housebuilder, anywhere and make more than $30K per year. I can do that with a ten minute commute, home every night to hug my wife and in general enjoy quality of life like all those customers of mine in the back of the bus.

If people would show backbone and just say no to this stuff, there is no choice. The prices would have to go up. You know what, Bombardier isn't building CRJ's for less, the Jet-A isn't costing less, the real estate at all those gates and office builidngs my airline uses doesn't cost less but the ticket prices for a flight keep going lower and lower.

Well NO. My choice is to say yes like I'm afraid of losing a $30K/yr job or say No and let everyone turn their heads and go "What"? If the airlines want $22K FO's and $45K Captains, then they need to find other whipping boys because I'm not playing that game. I'm not ransoming my soul just to fly a Jet.

For me, it doesn't really matter - if this stupid TA gets voted in, I'm not just going to stand there and take a 7.5% pay cut with about a 25% degrade in my household income due to the work rule changes and loss of "soft money" contract items. Not going to happen - like another poster said - I'll just go to Home Depot. If we vote NO, and they say well ACA should be closing its doors in 2 years - let's see - I'm thinking that in 2 years, business will pick up - we have 80 jets and a ton of gate space in some pretty good markets. You think they're going to dump ACA because we're $9Mill more expensive per year than the other guys? I can't even buy a CRJ with $9 Million!

And you want the coup d'grace for a capitalist like me - the union has already endorsed this TA. They think its great and will provide for future growth. That's union speak for "all we want is more pilots paying dues to our MEC." They don't care how much we get paid, they don't care how much we have to work, they just want more members and more dues. Pure BS. I am one of the pilots working for the them today - I am a constituent. Its time to start looking out for my own personal well-being. Future growth don't pay present bills. NO! NO! NO!

 

[70Cuda]

"Nothing ventured, nothing gained!!!!"

For all of you gutless pilots out there who bend over in the slightest breeze in order to save what you call your pathetic jobs (that's right, Mesa. I'm talking about you!) you have only yourselves to blame for your sorry pay and lifestyle. We as regional pilots could have incredible leverage over management if only we could stick together and fight for the "standard." Unfortunately, there are too many "soft-minded, and selfish" pilots out there that only care about themselves. These "weak-link" pilots destroy our collective potential as a whole.

For all of you "one-dimentional" thinkers out there, can you not see that it's not management that sets our low standards!!!! Our pathetic pay is a reflection of ourselves. As a group we have no "backbone" are "selfish" and lack the "courage" to do what we know is right deep down in our heart, which is to stand up to management even if it means we will get furloughed. If we all stood to fight together then management wouldn't be able to pit us against each other and there wouldn't be a race to the bottom, or furloughs, for that matter.

Getting furloughed is not the end of the World. If you don't have the confidence in yourself to believe you can find another job to take care of your family then you have serious issues. You become the weak link and will bring down the "standards."

I've been furloughed and can tell you it's not the end of the World.

Nothing is ever gained by continually giving up what you have gained.

I will vote "No" for this TA, and no matter what happens I will at least have my self-respect.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

I've seen several posts reference Home Depot. I work part-time for Home Depot and they are begging me to leave flying and going full-time as a department head, then Assistant Manager. After speaking with one of my Assistant Managers, he told me that due to his bonuses he will make just over $100,000 this year...normally he makes around $85,000. HMMM, an assistant store manager makes six figures, but airline pilots shouldn't...HMMM. We have almost 1600 stores with numerous openings for good earning careers to those who are interested.