UALX727
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 234
I was originally going to post this as a reply on another thread, but felt maybe it should have its own. This was intended to be a reply to FR8mastr's statement concerning PSA and the J4J issue.
<<PSA the new MESA They will get theirs, sombody else even more spineless will come along and undercut them!!>>
I hope you don't get furloughed, FR8mastr. I am currently furloughed from UAL and just read that ACA will be taking quite a few more RJ's for delivery in the next year.......while UAL still has 844 pilots out on the street. They are using these aircraft to fly many routes that were flown by UAL 737's. So much for our scope clause......And did I mention UAL management is seeking concessions from the pilot group??? Not gonna make too many people happy doing this kind of stuff with our pilots out on the street. Many of us were also furloughed illegally, as our contract states that "any pilot who has completed their probationary year will not be furloughed."
For the longest time it has just been the major airline pilots complaining about their jobs being outsourced. It looks as though now it has come full circle.
I feel as you probably do, that my job is being outsourced to the lowest bidder. I flew for a regional for 5 and 1/2 years and saw my company get RJ's. I knew deep down it wasn't good for the profession, creating more lower paying regional jobs and less higher paying major jobs. Why did we get the flying??? Lower labor costs, pure and simple. Our Avro RJ85 crews were getting paid LESS than half of what a Northwest DC-9 crew would get flying a similiarly sized aircraft. I believe the Avro held 85 pax. However, we flew 69 pax in that aircraft (due to NW scope clause, we took out seats) while a Northwest baby DC-9 held about what we did. We did the EXACT same job for peanuts......
Now this tactic is being used on regional airlines. Management pits you guys against each other and gives the flying to the lowest bidder.
I am amazed to see regional pilots stating that management is giving away "their" flying. Heck, I thought it was our flying!!! We have been saying that for a while now as major airline pilots. It makes me wonder where it will end......Sounds like non-union Freedom Air is another company that will be getting in the mix soon. How long will it take for their pilots to say the same thing we are saying???? A few years maybe, until some other carrier will offer to do "their" flying for less. You are correct in what you say, what comes around really goes around.
I think ALPA really dropped the ball on this issue a long time ago. I feel that any flying done under a brand name should only be done by that company's "represented" pilots. One union for one brand name. UAL ALPA should represent all pilot's doing flying for UAL, period, including any regional UAL Express company contracted with us to do the flying. This would avoid much of the whipsawing that takes place between pilot groups. This would also let UAL ALPA determine what rates all of our flying will be done at, including at the regional level.
I'm sure this is a pretty complicated issue, and if we took the time to really think it through we could get a good plan going. We need to do something to bridge the gap of wages between majors and regionals. This in turn would stop the flow of outsourced jobs to "cheap" labor. Good luck, FR8mastr.
<<PSA the new MESA They will get theirs, sombody else even more spineless will come along and undercut them!!>>
I hope you don't get furloughed, FR8mastr. I am currently furloughed from UAL and just read that ACA will be taking quite a few more RJ's for delivery in the next year.......while UAL still has 844 pilots out on the street. They are using these aircraft to fly many routes that were flown by UAL 737's. So much for our scope clause......And did I mention UAL management is seeking concessions from the pilot group??? Not gonna make too many people happy doing this kind of stuff with our pilots out on the street. Many of us were also furloughed illegally, as our contract states that "any pilot who has completed their probationary year will not be furloughed."
For the longest time it has just been the major airline pilots complaining about their jobs being outsourced. It looks as though now it has come full circle.
I feel as you probably do, that my job is being outsourced to the lowest bidder. I flew for a regional for 5 and 1/2 years and saw my company get RJ's. I knew deep down it wasn't good for the profession, creating more lower paying regional jobs and less higher paying major jobs. Why did we get the flying??? Lower labor costs, pure and simple. Our Avro RJ85 crews were getting paid LESS than half of what a Northwest DC-9 crew would get flying a similiarly sized aircraft. I believe the Avro held 85 pax. However, we flew 69 pax in that aircraft (due to NW scope clause, we took out seats) while a Northwest baby DC-9 held about what we did. We did the EXACT same job for peanuts......
Now this tactic is being used on regional airlines. Management pits you guys against each other and gives the flying to the lowest bidder.
I am amazed to see regional pilots stating that management is giving away "their" flying. Heck, I thought it was our flying!!! We have been saying that for a while now as major airline pilots. It makes me wonder where it will end......Sounds like non-union Freedom Air is another company that will be getting in the mix soon. How long will it take for their pilots to say the same thing we are saying???? A few years maybe, until some other carrier will offer to do "their" flying for less. You are correct in what you say, what comes around really goes around.
I think ALPA really dropped the ball on this issue a long time ago. I feel that any flying done under a brand name should only be done by that company's "represented" pilots. One union for one brand name. UAL ALPA should represent all pilot's doing flying for UAL, period, including any regional UAL Express company contracted with us to do the flying. This would avoid much of the whipsawing that takes place between pilot groups. This would also let UAL ALPA determine what rates all of our flying will be done at, including at the regional level.
I'm sure this is a pretty complicated issue, and if we took the time to really think it through we could get a good plan going. We need to do something to bridge the gap of wages between majors and regionals. This in turn would stop the flow of outsourced jobs to "cheap" labor. Good luck, FR8mastr.