FSI Training

[blueridge71]

How is the turbine aircraft training at the various FSI centers? Is it equivalent to 121 training programs? Is gouge available? Is the same type of study (i.e. memory items, limitations, flows, callouts) to be expected?

 

[Guitar rocker]

How is the turbine aircraft training at the various FSI centers? Is it equivalent to 121 training programs? Is gouge available? Is the same type of study (i.e. memory items, limitations, flows, callouts) to be expected?

I have never had a problem (except one time) with the instructors at FSI. Been to TOL and ICT only though. Everyone has always been professional. Gouge??? Some here and there.....a couple of Germans at FSI in ICT used their cell phones to take pictures of one of the written tests for the 680.....FSI eventually found their very own test on the internet after the Germans posted it there. Everyone had some gouge then, but now, no more cell phones can be used for that very same reason.

 

[Going2Golf]

It's alot better than heading to the Pan Am building only to find out you are checking with M*c or S*m. There is only 1 checkride, 1 set of standards and the instructors want you to pass. You are a customer, not an employee.
I've noticed this at all the FSIs that I have been to. DHN, ICT-Citation and ICT-Raytheon.
If you call ahead you can get a pre course study guide for the memory items limits and profiles, unless your company has specific profiles.

 

[sweptwingz]

Study

I've done training with Flight Safety at CMH, TOL, ICT, and ILM, and agree with most of the previous posts. Like most turbine courses, the data comes fast and furious. Know your memory items, all of the annunciators, limitations, and basic systems knowledge and you should get through their programs. Some of the FSI sims are quite (read too) sensitive on the yoke. Get "the tips" to flying the specific sim from your sim session instructor. They all seem have little quirks.

 

[FLYLOW22]

How is the turbine aircraft training at the various FSI centers? Is it equivalent to 121 training programs? Is gouge available? Is the same type of study (i.e. memory items, limitations, flows, callouts) to be expected?

Systems wise, FSI training is as good (if not better) as trainig you'd get at a major carrier.

SOP wise there can be some differences.

You are also a client of FSI and treated as such. No checkrides are "gimmes" but at least you don't have to ever worry about getting THAT check pilot everyone worries about. The one that yells like a drill sergent... yah, he doesn't exist.

 

[blueridge71]

Thanks. I notice in the POH that there are no boxed limitations. Am I correct in assuming that the whole limitation section is all memory items?

 

[Diesel]

It used to be but now FSI has gotten away from numbers. If it's green its good, yellow you look it up under the yellow tab, and red well the red tab.

Mostly weights, and speeds but even that is written on the instrument panel.

They used to care about the oil pressures and temps but thats long gone now because that info isn't going to help you when the ECAS is yelling at you.

 

[blueridge71]

Sounds good to me.

 

[Sparse]

Systems wise, FSI training is as good (if not better) as trainig you'd get at a major carrier.

SOP wise there can be some differences.

You are also a client of FSI and treated as such. No checkrides are "gimmes" but at least you don't have to ever worry about getting THAT check pilot everyone worries about. The one that yells like a drill sergent... yah, he doesn't exist.

Your responce seems to indicate that you have never been through a major 121 carrier's school. Pardon me if you have. FS doesn't hold a candle to the training I've received over my career. In my opinion, it is adequate at best. Technologically they are light years behind in ground training. Simunlators are pretty good and the instructors can be hit or miss but mostly hit with some outstanding. The books they provide are weak.

 

[Freight Dog]

I did a BE-300 type rating at ICT. It was a pretty good course. The training was very similar to how the airlines do it, with the exception of the sim. The instructor I had was great.

My problem with the whole training were the checklists.... Final items checklist has 16 items!!!!! They want you to do that checklist and not a flow. That was a little unrealistic.

 

[Archie Bunker]

Your responce seems to indicate that you have never been through a major 121 carrier's school. Pardon me if you have. FS doesn't hold a candle to the training I've received over my career. In my opinion, it is adequate at best. Technologically they are light years behind in ground training. Simunlators are pretty good and the instructors can be hit or miss but mostly hit with some outstanding. The books they provide are weak.

I have to agree with Flylow here. I've been to both types of schools (Pt.121=Delta, FSI@CMH for NetJets), and I thought that FSI was every bit as professional as Delta.

You want to talk about ground school? Delta doesn't even have ground school anymore. They mail you a systems CD ROM and your books....then they expect you to be ready to start sims, and take your oral/computer test in the first week after a cursory 1.5 hours systems review class. At FSI, they still have a traditional classroom ground school, and cover the systems, performance/weight and balance in the first week and a half.

As for the sim sorties, I thought both schools were equally professional, and accomplished their goals accordingly. The instructors on both sides were professional and thorough.

You mentioned weak books.....please elaborate. I thought my Citation X books covered the systems, EP's, and procedures adequately....virtually no different than my pubs at Delta.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Your responce seems to indicate that you have never been through a major 121 carrier's school. Pardon me if you have. FS doesn't hold a candle to the training I've received over my career. In my opinion, it is adequate at best. Technologically they are light years behind in ground training. Simunlators are pretty good and the instructors can be hit or miss but mostly hit with some outstanding. The books they provide are weak.

Oh I dunno. I've kinda been around the block a few times Sparse. I'm no training gooroo but I've tried a few initials, upgrades and transitions out.

You be the judge.


A320 Initial- Major followed by several recurrents

B737 AQP Initial/Type- MajorA few recurrents followed

A320 Requal- Major

A320 Upgrade- Major

The rest of my training outside of NJA/FSI is regional arline type training which apparently doesn't measure up to some people's standards... so we won't go there.

I think that training at FSI has been pretty good as compared to the rest of my experiences. That is my opinin, thank you for your's.

I think that I learned the least from AQP along the way. I learned the most from certain regionals that forced me to study or get the pink slip.

FSI is more visually engaging in groundschool.

FSI is a Berkshire Hathaway Company so NJA and FSI are kinda sisters. That being said, most of my FSI experiences are from the CMH FSI, right across the field from our HQ.

The NJA training department keps them on a short leash as far as what they teach, how they teach, how they train, how they check. Can't tell you about other FSI facilities.

CBT training, to me, seems like a cop out. I'd rather have the personal interaction. Airlines, these days, loooooooove the CBT and training at home for no pay. It's cuts down on labor costs.

I guess the big difference is that NJA takes what FSI teaches and adds more to it to meet our standards which are every bit as killa as any major I worked for.

Long of the short of it... I have never felt that I didn't know enough about my rig. I have friends that come in for PIC PCs and don;t even get groundschool or sim time prior to the checkride. What is THAT all about??

 

[Sparse]

Flylow.
Didn't mean it to come across as an insult by no means, but I have been through many 121 courses at a major airline, instructed on three different programs for close to ten years. I personally learn more from a cbt type program backed up by some classroom instruction. My problem with the FSI process is the length of the training day and the schedule. The course I took at MCO was 13 days straight with no days off, and the training days were pushing 12 hours between classroom, brief, sim and debrief. Maybe it was just the instructor but intoducing a V-1 cut for the first time with a thundestorm off the end of he runway was a bit much. I know how to avoid a thunderstorm, I didn't know how to fly a Citation. I stand behind my statement that FSI is adequate, but it is not world class.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Sparse,

I won't argue for FSI. It's not my company.

I have ben through 121 programs. I went through the "trace the molecule of air from the engine inlet to the air vent above seat 23b" type programs. I saw CBTs, AQP and MOUSE. They were al fine I guess... never failed a ride.

It seems that all the new "world class" training coming out is more geared to saving money than learning.

Saving money is fine but learning should not be compromised.

Several things are like flying at the airlines 50 years ago. Our training department is evolving as we speak; as they all do. We use FSI becasue of the financial synergies of being sister companies.

That being said, NJA picks up from where FSI leaves off and finishes the training. But that's another topic.

I just like all the pretty pictures that FSI gives us.

 

[RNObased]

Flylow.
Didn't mean it to come across as an insult by no means, but I have been through many 121 courses at a major airline, instructed on three different programs for close to ten years. I personally learn more from a cbt type program backed up by some classroom instruction. My problem with the FSI process is the length of the training day and the schedule. The course I took at MCO was 13 days straight with no days off, and the training days were pushing 12 hours between classroom, brief, sim and debrief. Maybe it was just the instructor but intoducing a V-1 cut for the first time with a thundestorm off the end of he runway was a bit much. I know how to avoid a thunderstorm, I didn't know how to fly a Citation. I stand behind my statement that FSI is adequate, but it is not world class.

It goes both ways as far a the sim instrutors at FSI go. I have been through 4 intials at four different centers. Some are good some aren't so good. My last type rating I thought the instruction in the sim was lame, while the classroom was good. They do the job, that is about it.