Frontier Vs. Continental...

sluggo

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Just wondering what your opinions are on the above airlines for long term pilot careers?? Thanks, Sluggo!
 

Delville

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It all depends on what you are looking for. In terms of which airline is more likely to be around longer, it seems that Continental is the clear winner. It has a stronger balance sheet and has the international route structure which will become a more and more important competitive advantage as globalization becomes more entrenched. However, you have to consider commuting issues, pay issues, etc and all of the other intangibles that affect your ability to want to stay with the airline long-term.
 

Daddy

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I know this will probably start a flame war by some of the flamers on here...no pun intended, but...I would think long and hard before going to an ALPA represented carrier in this environment...huge consolidation is on the horizon and the integration of two seniority lists by date of hire or some variance thereof would probably not work in your favor at CAL if they merged lists with UAL, DAL, or NWA....ask some of the newer hires at AWA how secure they feel right now and I'll bet they'll tell say they are at least a little concerned. I don't know what the plan there is but merging lists never goes well....Reno, TWA, heck even Morris had a lawsuit filed and those guys made out pretty well. Who knows, CAL may not merge with anyone and if they did I'm not saying you would get screwed, but it's just something to think about. CAL is doing great and FRNT is doing pretty well, too...either way, those are 2 good choices, but I'd definitely factor some future uncertainty in there...just something to think about...fire when ready...
 

Dave Benjamin

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Here's another thought. F9 has a fair amount of competition in DEN. A post bankruptcy restructured UAL may give them a run for their money. UAL is already hurting F9 yields I'm sure. I'd also be concerned with WN coming into COS. Although it hasn't been discussed I see more and more flying happening in COS. I don't know what WN factors into deciding what city to add next but COS seems like a logical addition. WN could siphon a lot of business away from F9. The budget travel crowd will happily drive to COS and COS is a much less expensive airport for an airline to operate from.
 

Pilotbob3

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Daddy is right! its not a matter of "if" but "when " you will get screwed by ALPA. it doesn't matter where you work ALPA will hose you...unless you are the ALpa president. and i mean National mostly.
 

BluDevAv8r

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Daddy said:
I know this will probably start a flame war by some of the flamers on here...no pun intended, but...I would think long and hard before going to an ALPA represented carrier in this environment...huge consolidation is on the horizon and the integration of two seniority lists by date of hire or some variance thereof would probably not work in your favor at CAL if they merged lists with UAL, DAL, or NWA....ask some of the newer hires at AWA how secure they feel right now and I'll bet they'll tell say they are at least a little concerned. I don't know what the plan there is but merging lists never goes well....Reno, TWA, heck even Morris had a lawsuit filed and those guys made out pretty well. Who knows, CAL may not merge with anyone and if they did I'm not saying you would get screwed, but it's just something to think about. CAL is doing great and FRNT is doing pretty well, too...either way, those are 2 good choices, but I'd definitely factor some future uncertainty in there...just something to think about...fire when ready...
Actually, there is a lot of inaccuracy in this post pilotbob. I suggest Daddy reads the ALPA Merger Manual as well as some background information on the Allegheny/Mohawk LPP's. This whole "ALPA is the boogeyman" thought process simply doesn't make sense to me at all. Lots of emotion backed by very little facts.

-Neal
 

mckpickle

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Pilotbob3 said:
Daddy is right! its not a matter of "if" but "when " you will get screwed by ALPA. it doesn't matter where you work ALPA will hose you...unless you are the ALpa president. and i mean National mostly.

In another post you stated you were hired at CAL 20 or 22 years ago? Your opinion about ALPA leads me to think you tried to save CAL back then? Am I wrong?
 

PHXFLYR

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Long term pilot career ??? No such thing any more,son


PHXFLYR:cool:
 

TonyC

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Daddy said:
...huge consolidation is on the horizon and the integration of two seniority lists by date of hire or some variance thereof would probably not work in your favor at CAL if they merged lists with UAL, DAL, or NWA ...
Yeah, it's probably better to remain unemployed until the rumored merger occurs so you can be a new hire added to the bottom of the merged list. Screwing yourself is preferred over the possibility of someone else committing a perceived injustice against you.


:rolleyes:




.
 

Pilotbob3

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mckpickle said:
In another post you stated you were hired at CAL 20 or 22 years ago? Your opinion about ALPA leads me to think you tried to save CAL back then? Am I wrong?
yes you are wrong.....i never posted anything like that....nor did i get hired at CO between the ages of 17-19. or ever worked there
 

Pilotbob3

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BluDevAv8r said:
Actually, there is a lot of inaccuracy in this post pilotbob. I suggest Daddy reads the ALPA Merger Manual as well as some background information on the Allegheny/Mohawk LPP's. This whole "ALPA is the boogeyman" thought process simply doesn't make sense to me at all. Lots of emotion backed by very little facts.

-Neal
sorry neal, but at TWA we had the Allegheny/mohawk deal in our contract....out the window! ALPA national as well as all of the MEC's turned their backs on the TWA pilots as the APA stapled most of us to the list. that is a "fact" ...as well as the "fact" that i am one of those furloughees. ALPA wanted to get APA back into alpa and sacraficed 2,301 dues paying TWA pilots hoping to have a total list of over 14,000 AA pilots rejoin ALPA. why???? $$$$$$$$$$$ the math seems pretty easy. i beleive that the Dal/nwa/ual mec's turned their backs as well, thinking they might have the opportunity to screw pilots if they were the aquiring airline in a merger.
 

sluggo

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Thanks

Thanks for the info. and thanks for trying to keep this post on track. sluggo
 

mckpickle

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Pilotbob3 said:
yes you are wrong.....i never posted anything like that....nor did i get hired at CO between the ages of 17-19. or ever worked there
My bad.....sorry.
 

BluDevAv8r

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Pilotbob3 said:
sorry neal, but at TWA we had the Allegheny/mohawk deal in our contract....out the window! ALPA national as well as all of the MEC's turned their backs on the TWA pilots as the APA stapled most of us to the list. that is a "fact" ...as well as the "fact" that i am one of those furloughees. ALPA wanted to get APA back into alpa and sacraficed 2,301 dues paying TWA pilots hoping to have a total list of over 14,000 AA pilots rejoin ALPA. why???? $$$$$$$$$$$ the math seems pretty easy. i beleive that the Dal/nwa/ual mec's turned their backs as well, thinking they might have the opportunity to screw pilots if they were the aquiring airline in a merger.
I don't want to dredge up that whole mess Pilotbob but Allegheny/Mohawk is all based on having a "fair and equitable" merger but is that kind of integration is also based on "career expectations" at the time of the merger. So again, I view the above as emotion backed by very little factual information. In a merger there will only be 1 person who is happy...that is the #1 guy on the list - everyone else thinks they got screwed.

-Neal
 
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