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Frontier pilots please read:

  • Thread starter Thread starter TOGA
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TOGA

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Posts
334
There's no reason we and the company can't both get what we want when it comes to Lynx. They've stated that they want separate companies & I (for one of many) think that anything with Frontier on the side should be flown by Frontier pilots. We need look no further than Continental/Continental Micronesia to find an example of a nearly identical arrangement in action. They are separate companies whose airplanes are all flown by Continental pilots. Frontier Airlines Holdings gets to have whatever it is they think are the advantages of separate companies, and we get the job protections we need. If we can get the union to forward this specific suggestion to the company, and the company says 'no', doesn't that tell us something about their plans?
As for the argument I keep hearing that a 'well-qualified' applicant would forced into the right seat of the Q400, that would be, IMO, the most significant problem with this arrangement. There are some possible work-arounds . . . fences, seat locks or some other leapfrogging scenario. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I do see it as a surmountable challenge. Much better than accepting the same screw-job that's been handed to every single pilot group before us that's dealt with a holding company/wholly-owned subsidiary scenario. How many 'well-qualified' applicants do you think we'll get when our growth is stagnant and our future even less certain? In case any of my fellow F9 pilots are wondering, yes, I have repeatedly voiced my concerns and suggestions to the union . . . to no avail. Its been made clear that their minds are made up that the upcoming TA, with its scope clause, will be the answer. I wonder how many other union administrations have thought the exact same thing in recent years. Do you think they were right? If not, you need to make some noise, and I mean now! This thing is shaping up as I'm typing, and I get the distinct impression that my dissenting opinion is one of very few the union is hearing. I keep talking to guys who say 'whatever's going to happen is going to happen'. If that's the way you take this on, that's exactly what will happen . . . to all of us! The only way we can get what we want is if we make it known that it is what we want. 'One list' is the only way this will work to the benefit of all parties concerned. By granting us this request, the company would keep its single most valuable asset . . . loyal, dedicated, motivated pilots. That, in turn will allow them to meet the expectations of those they work for . . . the shareholders.
 
You need to be reasonable and recognize the market forces at work. Lynx must be a stand alone regional in order to be successful.
 
If you're really a Frontier pilot then post this on the FAPA board where you'll find most Frontier pilots and probably get a more accurate response.
 
1 List is how it should have been along time ago. I really hope you guys make it a one list deal. If you dont look at whats going on at all the other carriers. Hope the best for you F9 guys.
 
You need to be reasonable and recognize the market forces at work. Lynx must be a stand alone regional in order to be successful.

What, exactly, was unreasonable about my post? If you read what I wrote, you'll see that I support management's desire that Lynx be a 'stand alone' company, with the specific exception of the pilot list.
 
What, exactly, was unreasonable about my post? If you read what I wrote, you'll see that I support management's desire that Lynx be a 'stand alone' company, with the specific exception of the pilot list.

If you do a search on the Guat, you'll find he's really a private pilot student, that likes to talk the talk!!!
 
If you're really a Frontier pilot then post this on the FAPA board where you'll find most Frontier pilots and probably get a more accurate response.

I am and I have. I've written several lengthy, detailed posts on the FAPA board and I've had repeated email correspondence with the union. Regarding my posts on that board, I'm posting here because that board is, apparently, little used by any 'moderates' in our group . . . I've been told repeatedly that the majority of those who peruse that board are the vocal minority among us, not the 'mainstream' of our pilot group. Regarding my correspondence with the union, please refer to my remarks on that subject in my original post.
 
So if it is one list for pilots, what is the company to gain by allowing this?

You have to think that they are going to be paying regional wages for these Q400 pilots. They also probably don't want people to get hired, fly the "little prop" for a year or so, and then when they get the seniority they move to the bus and more money has to be spent to get them trained for that aircraft along with their replacement in the Q400 again.

I think it would be great for Frontier to have one list, but I don't see them allowing it because it will cost them so much more in the end. I am not sure how the company will be happy if the pilots are all on one list.

Also the other thing you have to wonder, if the pilots get this, then why not other work groups too?
 
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I am curious what the Frontier union has to say about this. One pilot group would be under one union-a good thing. But a seperate pilot group? Would they be with the union or not. If not union, their would be a lot of bad blood between the pilot groups, and how would this effect pilots who want to go from Lynx to Frontier?
 
Stagnation you bet

The Q400 will fly 1200 miles, IE MCI, LAS, ABQ to name a few. Things will slow and the original plan for 70 Airbus will prob really happen verses getting new ones. For anyone hired after Feb of 04 no upgrade to captain with 70 jets. I know since I'm in that group. The Q400 really makes it look as upgrade will not happen under current fleet plans. I like the post that said Captain in four year "management said so" Well folks TWA said captain in 5 now look. Remember "concept, design, IPO, build, make the books and the operation look good and then SELL to get your money" Someday they will polish the bithch up and sell it and we have all seen it , Morris, Republic, TWA, Reno. Well those guys really made out well. Also keep in mide that the company in the fall of 2004 sold 93 mill dollars in Class C stock that has a mandatory buy back period starting in 2009 for fours years at between 21 to 24 mill per year or they must refinance. They are using that money from F9 mainline to start lynx. They are gambling with your future. But Potter is our friend so he would never screw the employees. It's business, so he would if they thought it would get the most bang for the buck verses selling it. Remember F9 and its management has proven themselves so they can now go to other airline jobs, They are now in the "in" crowd and deserve to be, thus your future is less sucure since they now have options. They are there to run a company and could give a ******************** about you, your family or your upgrade. They are their to build and run a business. Nothing personal, you are just a pawn so save our money and never forget you can only depend on yourself, friends and family. Stop being so Idealistic, thats how 15 million Germans were convince to join the Nazi party.
 
Lack of education

F9 is hiring highschool grads with no degrees for a reason. An uneducated work force is an easly munipulated work force. GuppyWN you are right they are selling this as growth and its good for the work force. Well they will most likely bring in good revenue, but will take away some flying within the 1200 mile ring. And for your info I am going so bite me. Good luck let me know what its like to sit in the right seat forever, but hey we got Q400. Try looking at the big picture and keep our resume up to speed.
 
Careful Frontier pilots, looking long term, Mgmt may decide to purchase 319's for the Lynx (alter ego) certificate, pursue DOT certification and get approval. Once this happens, Frontier as we know it is done. This has happened and it would be a darn shame. Frontier is a wonderful airline with A+ employees but greed at the top will destroy it. The bean counters look at costs and a cheaper way to do business. Good luck. My bet is the Lynx will not be union (full of company promises and B.S. but no union)
 

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