Frontier pilots approve labor contract

[F9 Driver]

Point taken Big Meat.

The rules of our little game were drawn and the hands delt long before our negotiators sat down at the table two years ago to play. The choice we had to make wasn't between having a contract with RJ feed and having a contract without RJ feed.

We should have negotiated for the addition of Horizon CRJ700s when that flying started, but didn't. Most of our pilots felt that Frontier needed the competitive advantage of starting thin routes with the RJs and backfilling with mainline as the route grew during a time when the industry was at its worst. This is exactly what management has done so far (without resounding success), so now as well as having past practice to overcome, most of our pilots are on board with management's plan.

We can pound our chests, point to the crystal ball, and tell everyone who'll listen that the industry is in recovery (unitll we invade Iran.) But untill our hopes come true in Denver... WE AREN'T/HAVEN'T BEEN PROFITABLE! It is tough to maintain your current ABOVE AVERAGE pay / QOL when your company is bleeding and your pilots (except the loud fringe) are not interested in backing up a more militant stance by the union. Telling management that their best plan to increase revenue and stop the red ink isn't acceptable to the help may come across as a bit off base.

We'll just have to disagree about the result of the feed our contract allows. We were "under fed" with the regional feed (seat departures) we had with Horizon (which, no matter how you and I like it is part of our business now.) The new deal gives us feed in porportion with the mainline comparable with other hub/spoke carriers. I'd love to have our pilots flying it at wages comparable to 318s, but the cost advantage that makes RJ feed worthwile comes partly from labor costs (a fact that isn't lost on our management.)

With the new contract now in place I guess we will both get to wait and see how this plays out. For both our sakes lets hope me and the majority of the Frontier pilots are right.

 

[Lear70]

We should have negotiated for the addition of Horizon CRJ700s when that flying started, but didn't.

Well said.

Telling management that their best plan to increase revenue and stop the red ink isn't acceptable to the help may come across as a bit off base.

Well, that would be THEIR problem, would it not?

An airline becoming profitable at industry average wages is fine. An airline becoming profitable by dropping or freezing those industry-average wages is NOT.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Management needs to find new ways to increase their net revenue. Stealing from their employees is NOT acceptable.

We'll just have to disagree about the result of the feed our contract allows. We were "under fed" with the regional feed (seat departures) we had with Horizon (which, no matter how you and I like it is part of our business now.) The new deal gives us feed in porportion with the mainline comparable with other hub/spoke carriers.

Wait a second, I thought you were a LCC. When did you become a legacy carrier with a hub and spoke operation that needed to be supplemented by RJ's? With a total pilot group of WHAT size at F9??!!

I'd love to have our pilots flying it at wages comparable to 318s, but the cost advantage that makes RJ feed worthwile comes partly from labor costs (a fact that isn't lost on our management.)

Labor costs make up less than 10% of the operating cost of an RJ. That's a fact. An increase of 50% in pilot wages alone accounts for about a 1% increase in CASM. Pilot wages are a VERY small piece of the pie.

We are in containment mode now thanks to past practice, and those that think we have right on our side in making a stand now haven't been paying much attention to how labor is being thrown under the bus by our courts (thanks Bushy - You're doing a heck of a job!)

OK, now it's my turn to tell YOU to stop being so dramatic. Not to mention stop blaming things that had no effect on a Yes/No vote.

First, labor is being thrown under the bus by our BANKRUPTCY courts. F9 isn't in bankruptcy last I checked. The non-BR carriers seem to be humming along quite nicely for the most part without being screwed by the legal system, the NMB notwithstanding.

Lastly, blaming your contract on Bush? Come on... that one belongs squarely in the YGBSM category. Last I checked, he didn't carry a union card, much less get to vote on your T.A.

With the new contract now in place I guess we will both get to wait and see how this plays out. For both our sakes lets hope me and the majority of the Frontier pilots are right.

Agreed. Just hate the precedent it sets for a LCC to allow Scope concessions.

That's a HORRIBLE road to start down...

 

[F9 Driver]

Hi Lear,

Just read that your AAI contract allows 70 seaters up to 100K MTOW.

Can you confirm?

 

[Lear70]

Hi Lear,

Just read that your AAI contract allows 70 seaters up to 100K MTOW.

Can you confirm?

Yup, up to 20% of the total ASM's which, at our current level of flying, means about 25 RJ's.

That was negotiated in our last contract; I wasn't here. Looking to eliminate that in the next contract.

The point is not to give MORE Scope concessions than you already have.

Your new contract does.

 

[bearcat]

That is an incorrect statement.

WHOAAA!! That was like an auto reply to an auto reply....

 

[Capi_Cafre']

Our management didn’t think they were operating outside of our old scope using Frontier Holdings ala Freedom/G0-jet, and we’d have to burn the place down to prove otherwise. Our new scope section and the second contract that binds holdings to scope were vetted by the best in the business, and time will tell if they were right.

The best language in the world isn't worth the paper it's printed on if you don't have the wherewithal to defend it. If a quarter of your group couldn't be bothered to show up for a vote I don't think your management's too worried about them showing up for a fight.

 

[F9 Driver]

Narcissistic much?

Yup, up to 20% of the total ASM's which, at our current level of flying, means about 25 RJ's.

That was negotiated in our last contract; I wasn't here. Looking to eliminate that in the next contract.

The point is not to give MORE Scope concessions than you already have.

Your new contract does.

Thanks for clarifying your position, and making sure everyone knows you think we screwed up.
I'll take it under advisement, find somebody who cares, and have them check with you first next time. uke:

 

[Green]

For the Frontier pilots now they can focus on securing their future, adding to the bottom line to the Company & to their own bank accounts and performaing professionally. Negotiations are never easy and stressful for all......I applaud your persistence and wish you all well.
.

I don't have a dog in this fight but if I was a frontier pilot in the lower 50% of the seniority list I would start looking hard into moving on. I think the item that is going to come back to haunt f9 pilots is losing future Ejets to the regionals. F9 is going to be looking to preserve capital in the years to come as SWA moves in and UAL gets back on its feet. Why would they order more 318's/319's when they can contract some ultra low cost regional to fly 88 seat E jets? The Q400's might have just been a distraction to get what they really want...E170/190's flown by non-mainline pilots.

Just out of curiosity what's up with the defined contribution plan? Sure it's near the top of the industry after nine years but the WHOLE point of a 401k is compound interest. You are much better off with 10% starting year 1 than 11% after 9 years. I would find out whoever was in charge of the negotiating committee and throw a week old crew meal in his flight bag the day after he goes off on vacation.....

I don't have anything against f9 pilots but I think to negotiate a concessionary contract as the industry is swinging into profitability is crazy...

 

[USMC319]

I don't have anything against f9 pilots but I think to negotiate a concessionary contract as the industry is swinging into profitability is crazy...

An industry swinging into profitability for some maybe. Frontier hasn't experienced the "big swing" yet, and to to boldly predict a definitive trend in one of the most volitile industries is naive.

This contract isn't great but it isn't bad and falls near the top of most every category when compared to other airlines for the same equipment. Of course nobody wanted this scope, but we have seen how "iron clad" scope clauses have worked for all the other airlines. The majors sold everyone out long ago by allowing the commuters to fly jets in the first place. If F9 exercises this RJ strategy then the airline will fail anyway so what the hell.

 

[frog_flyer]

colas of 1.5% and 1%

sweet! gotta keep it below the inflation rate, right?