"Frontier guys" Don't get Greedy!

[airlinepilot]

Give it up ATA....stop trying to poison the well for the F9 guys. No comparison between what F9 has done. ATA failed because of poor management, expensive leases and very limited customer loyality in conjunction to a declining charter business.

 

[Hpilot]

Regardless of their prospects, F9 is giving WN fits in DEN. The tea leave reading leads me to think that WN management sees PRECIOUS few growth options outside DEN and certainly NO PLACE were one deal can do so much competitive damage. There is NO other place you can, for the price, get all the goods as WN can get, with buying F9. WN is getting a rare gift, a MULTI win-win gift! For many of its individual components, let alone the whole enchilada, its good for WN, otherwise they WOULDN'T be in the running. Its a great real estate deal, by ITSELF. It is, by itself, a great way to take out a scrappy competitor, It is, by ITSELF a great advantage to kick UA in the shins. It is, by its self, a way to prevent a continued F9 presence, perhaps well-funded and growing, further complicating the largest hole in WN's map. Southwest is, for my money, the best run company in the business. They wouldn't be willing to "poison" their culture with outsiders if there wasn't a HUGE benefit to be had. If the deal goes down, the upside, over the next few years, could be colossal. WN is buying a front row seat, SPRING-LOADED to the fighting position, for a once in a decade chance to break out and RUN! UAL (BTW my former employer) appears to be about 2 years behind the competitive curve, WN about 5 years AHEAD. The short version is, buy F9 now and its the best 113 million dollar beat-down ever spent. The WN pilots, or Wall Street, has never lost betting against Southwest. I wouldn't bet against them either. All I know is that WN sees something BIG....actions are more revealing than words......and certainly a "benefit" to the current WN seniority list, wonder what its really "worth"????

I called it. Here it is. We are the ones that are the money makers. Gimme, Gimme, Gimme. Time for some popcorn.

 

[The Prussian]

IMO...this is an attempt by WN to avoid another Indy Air fiasco...a couple of years where low ticket prices negated the possibility of any profits in that area (BWI/IAD), until Indy finally had to exit stage left...a foregone conclusion that had been predicted from the start. The RAH deal would probably have a very similar effect.

As far as SLI goes...WN management prefers to let SWAPA find an agreeable solution. However, these solutions can sometimes be elusive. Case in point...in the Muse/Transtar deal, Herb had no problem initially in letting SWAPA integrate the Muse pilots into the seniority list...but when Muse pilots didn't like the terms of integration (driven by a couple of senior heavy-weights), balked in the eleventh hour and decided to go ALPA, Herb foresaw huge turmoil in the future, threatening labor tranquility, the teamwork and culture that he so valued. Therefore the deal was scuttled. With Morris, the situation was solved more amicably, and management went along with it.

These are my recollections, and subject to error, so if anyone else can correct my memories, please jump in.

 

[texman]

Regardless of their prospects, F9 is giving WN fits in DEN. The tea leave reading leads me to think that WN management sees PRECIOUS few growth options outside DEN and certainly NO PLACE were one deal can do so much competitive damage. There is NO other place you can, for the price, get all the goods as WN can get, with buying F9. WN is getting a rare gift, a MULTI win-win gift! For many of its individual components, let alone the whole enchilada, its good for WN, otherwise they WOULDN'T be in the running. Its a great real estate deal, by ITSELF. It is, by itself, a great way to take out a scrappy competitor, It is, by ITSELF a great advantage to kick UA in the shins. It is, by its self, a way to prevent a continued F9 presence, perhaps well-funded and growing, further complicating the largest hole in WN's map. Southwest is, for my money, the best run company in the business. They wouldn't be willing to "poison" their culture with outsiders if there wasn't a HUGE benefit to be had. If the deal goes down, the upside, over the next few years, could be colossal. WN is buying a front row seat, SPRING-LOADED to the fighting position, for a once in a decade chance to break out and RUN! UAL (BTW my former employer) appears to be about 2 years behind the competitive curve, WN about 5 years AHEAD. The short version is, buy F9 now and its the best 113 million dollar beat-down ever spent. The WN pilots, or Wall Street, has never lost betting against Southwest. I wouldn't bet against them either. All I know is that WN sees something BIG....actions are more revealing than words......and certainly a "benefit" to the current WN seniority list, wonder what its really "worth"????

Hey give your self some credit. The f9 people won't poison the culture, flown on F9 to much as a paid passenger to say it will. After it is all said and done there will be a little bit of anger, but I think WN does have some big plans that require just more that 50 airplanes and good people. Gary has been looking at you guys for a long time. Rah is apart of the deal too. They are making it sound as if it is a all out war to see who is going to get F9. Rah just needs money to help Midwest deal out. If it was all out war to see who get's f9 then WN would of threw down some more cash. The only thing I am worried about is Lynx. I hope that doesn't turn into a RJ feed via Rah. Just my thoughts.

 

[Tristar]

Give it up ATA....stop trying to poison the well for the F9 guys. No comparison between what F9 has done. ATA failed because of poor management, expensive leases and very limited customer loyality in conjunction to a declining charter business.

Wrong. Not saying those items didn't contribute, but they are only the tip of the iceberg. Buy hey, keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

I sincerely hope things go much better for F9 than they did for us. I'm not optimistic given that less than 1% of ATA pilots were hired by WN, and not many more than that even given interviews. I'd still like to know why that happened (more more aptly, didn't happen), but that is a topic for a different thread.

 

[greenbayfan]

Give it up ATA....stop trying to poison the well for the F9 guys. No comparison between what F9 has done. ATA failed because of poor management, expensive leases and very limited customer loyality in conjunction to a declining charter business.

So, what's the reason F9 is in BK? Good management and unlimited customer loyalty? Wow you are in denial.....

 

[StaySeated]

10 pages, 136 posts, and everyone is still saying the same thing. Not an effective method of communication if you ask me.

No one has even seen a proposal yet, but we all seem to have the answer.

I, for one, am done going round and round. To my friends at SWA, I wish you the best of luck regardless of the outcome of this auction. Hopefully this chapter will end on a positive note, but I am not holding my breath.

Cheers.

 

[FDJ2]

10 pages, 136 posts, and everyone is still saying the same thing. Not an effective method of communication if you ask me.

10 pages, that's nothing. Wait till this thing gets to arbitration, where it will end up if SWA wins the bid and both sides can't negotiate a list, you'll see 3000 pages of testimony with everyone is saying the same thing.

I hope for the sake of all the pilots at SWA and Frontier that you all work this thing out amicably and arrive at a negotiated agreement that is fair and equitable to all, it will be better than what will come out of arbitration.

 

[airlinepilot]

Talked to a Dal Capt today in PHX. He said he talked with the Dal Dom Rep and they had asked the People Dept to print all Apps with current Frontier pilots. SWAPA has 450+ names of pilots who want to work for SWA. Guess their wish could come true but not as a new hire...more $$$$

 

[waveflyer]

That sounds like BS- I think it would be reasonable to expect those names are kept private- it's confidential