Frontier files chapter 11

[Dumb Pilot]

Everywhere else in the world salaries are going up due to the increased demand for experienced crews. In the biggest pilot market, in the biggest economy on the planet, they are asking for pay cuts from what already is the lowest paid pilots of any industrialized nation.

 

[StaySeated]

If it were me, I would force the JUDGE to cut my pay, before I EVER volunteered for a pay cut. And then I'd never let the court forget they took food off my table!

Think about it....

You tell your MEC to go in there and tell management to pound salt! Force your management to go in front of a judge and beg that judge to let them TAKE money out of your pocket.

We're talking a FEDERAL judge here folks. Make him, or her, cut your pay, your benefits, your retirement, etc...

THEN, take it to the press...advertise the crap out it... That your FEDERAL JUDGE TOOK FOOD OFF YOUR TABLE. And your management got 6 month retention packages!

If one more pilot group succumbs to MORE concessions, we're all fuked!

You guys really underestimate what a group effort can accomplish.

It is not the bk judge's responsibility to feed my family, he has a responsibility to the creditors committee and that is all.

During the comair bk (DAL filed and comair went with them) the pilot group took 22% concessions before Ch.11 and then the company filed an 1113 post petition. A comair pilot went before the judge with documentation in hand that he already qualified for food stamps and he obviously could not accept another pay cut. The judge's response was simple, "not my problem". Once in chapter 11, your company exists in a vacuum and it doesn't matter what other airlines pay, the court only looks at your airline and decides if they have a viable business plan. If they do, the court allows them to emerge, if they don't the creditors committee recommends liquidation. It really is that simple. This is my third journey through the process and it has been almost exactly the same every time. This is the closest I have been to liquidation as we are currently funding the entire process ourselves.

With regard to telling management to pound sand, the thought crossed everyones mind here. But once the emotion of anger subsided, the voice of reason took over. We also had an external voice of reason with R. Babbit (40 years experience in aviation, former pres. of ALPA, rode EAL into the ground) as a consultant. When you sit in a room with someone that has been through this process over and over and listen to the fact that not one labor group has prevailed in an 1113, you realize pretty quickly what your real choices are.

Add to all of this that the company has an 1110 cure hanging over their heads and your choices come down to this.

Collect one, maybe two more full paychecks. Or take a hit and hope you collect 8 more 85% paychecks.

 

[A350]

The "brotherhood" is alive and well, isn't it?

All of you getting on here and talking tough about what you would do if faced with a similar situation are a bunch of windbags who secretly can't wait for the "other guy" to fail so perhaps you won't.

When will you guys get it.....these pilots are fighting for their existence....not some pie in the sky version of what their pay should be.

Ignore the negativity of these people and do what you feel is right for your family. These same people who want you to stand up for what they feel is right would throw you under a moving train if it advanced their careers one number.

A350

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Everywhere else in the world salaries are going up due to the increased demand for experienced crews. In the biggest pilot market, in the biggest economy on the planet, they are asking for pay cuts from what already is the lowest paid pilots of any industrialized nation.

And we can all look in the mirror.

We get the country we create, the gov't we vote for and the culture we promote.

WE have created this ultra comeptitive market/culture where there are winners and losers... we designed it, we use it, we relish it...

We do that by voting for politicians who don't care about us, but yet we believe if we give them a free pass the crumbs that fall down will be plenty...combined with a fear of being labeled something unpopular....

Finally, we all about ourselves... the individual....


Pull the Ladder up.....cause its up yours I got mine....

 

[USMC319]

The "brotherhood" is alive and well, isn't it?
All of you getting on here and talking tough about what you would do if faced with a similar situation are a bunch of windbags who secretly can't wait for the "other guy" to fail so perhaps you won't.

When will you guys get it.....these pilots are fighting for their existence....not some pie in the sky version of what their pay should be.

Ignore the negativity of these people and do what you feel is right for your family. These same people who want you to stand up for what they feel is right would throw you under a moving train if it advanced their careers one number.
A350

A350,
This is one of the truest statements I have ever read on this board. Quite frankly, all the hyperbole being spewed by many of the "principled" airline pilots has been nauseating. Thanks for the reality check.

 

[Joblu]

A350,
This is one of the truest statements I have ever read on this board. Quite frankly, all the hyperbole being spewed by many of the "principled" airline pilots has been nauseating. Thanks for the reality check.

Paycuts in an airline such as F9 considering it's size will make no difference. The fate of the airline is the hands of upper management and not the few bucks that would be taken in by concessions especially in this environment.

I would rather walk away if the time comes with pride and a few more bucks in my pocket instead of stuffing the pockets of executives when time runs out.

Even though you turned me down 2 times, best of luck F9!

 

[greenbayfan]

When will you guys get it.....these pilots are fighting for their existence....not some pie in the sky version of what their pay should be.

Ignore the negativity of these people and do what you feel is right for your family. These same people who want you to stand up for what they feel is right would throw you under a moving train if it advanced their careers one number.

A350

A350, have you ever worked for a carrier that asked for concessions while in Ch11? I doubt it from the above quote.

The bottom line is this, take your hit from the court, NOT voluntarily. There is a one time hit taken if the court imposes it. If you take it voluntarily, the company can go to court asking for more. Don't do it boys and girls, take your medicine in court. Unless your company has some miraculous plan, which won't help anyway with SWA going in for the kill in DEN, you are fu*cked anyway...

 

[Superpilot92]

this is ridiculous!!

Frontier Airlines Inc. was authorized yesterday to adopt a severance plan for 65 top executives that theoretically could cost as much as $4.4 million, though the company said the expense probably won't exceed $1.5 million. Objections from the U.S. Trustee were resolved. The severance payments would amount to 10 months' salary or less. The plan was supported by the creditors' committee. To read Bloomberg coverage, click here. Frontier is the only U.S. airline still flying out of six to file in Chapter 11 since December. The holding company's financial statement for the end of December listed assets of $1.1 billion and debt totaling $933 million. With 62 aircraft serving 70 destinations, Frontier is the second-largest carrier operating from Denver, where it competes with United Airlines Inc. The case is In Frontier Airline Holdings Inc., 08-11298, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York (Manhattan).
Bloomberg.com: News

 

[crxpilot]

this is ridiculous!!

Frontier Airlines Inc. was authorized yesterday to adopt a severance plan for 65 top executives that theoretically could cost as much as $4.4 million, though the company said the expense probably won't exceed $1.5 million. Objections from the U.S. Trustee were resolved. The severance payments would amount to 10 months' salary or less. The plan was supported by the creditors' committee. To read Bloomberg coverage, click here. Frontier is the only U.S. airline still flying out of six to file in Chapter 11 since December. The holding company's financial statement for the end of December listed assets of $1.1 billion and debt totaling $933 million. With 62 aircraft serving 70 destinations, Frontier is the second-largest carrier operating from Denver, where it competes with United Airlines Inc. The case is In Frontier Airline Holdings Inc., 08-11298, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York (Manhattan).
Bloomberg.com: News

So, $1.1 billion minus $933 million equals $77 million leftover right now? How long can that last?

 

[CitationUltra]

this is ridiculous!!

Frontier Airlines Inc. was authorized yesterday to adopt a severance plan for 65 top executives that theoretically could cost as much as $4.4 million, though the company said the expense probably won't exceed $1.5 million. Objections from the U.S. Trustee were resolved. The severance payments would amount to 10 months' salary or less. The plan was supported by the creditors' committee. To read Bloomberg coverage, click here. Frontier is the only U.S. airline still flying out of six to file in Chapter 11 since December. The holding company's financial statement for the end of December listed assets of $1.1 billion and debt totaling $933 million. With 62 aircraft serving 70 destinations, Frontier is the second-largest carrier operating from Denver, where it competes with United Airlines Inc. The case is In Frontier Airline Holdings Inc., 08-11298, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York (Manhattan).
Bloomberg.com: News

This is merely to cushion the fall of the people who ran the company into the ground in the first place.