Frontier Asked for 20% Cut?

[Bavarian Chef]

It's a Guild, not a union. Think American Medical Association, or the Bar Association. Really more of a gatekeeper than a union. Everyone presently flying would be grandfathered in, as long as they only flew for guild pay or above.

Also, it's a lot different trying to replace the 80,000 (?) pilots than the controllers. Military pilots couldn't even man one small airline, and without an airline pilot with them, they'd never get off of the Ramp (heh-heh! Just kidding!).

Yeah, it is really hard to find pilots who are willing to work.

A guild? Have you been hanging out at Rennaissance fairs again?

 

[seefive]

This thread is ridiculous.

 

[dojetdriver]

If, and it's a big if, it's true, probably just typical Union-Company negotiating tactics.

Conmpany wants 20%, Union will only want to give 10%. Company wants these work rules lifted, Union wants this in exchange. When all is said and done, they will settle somewhere in the middle. Just like everybody else.

 

[Skyrunner]

A guild?

Yeah, it is really hard to find pilots who are willing to work.

A guild? Have you been hanging out at Rennaissance fairs again?

Can I be Sir Skyrunner? Although, I will like those smoked turkey legs at the GUILD meetings. I do like Count Skyrunner, the Earl of Skyharbor.

 

[pipe]

Can I be Sir Skyrunner? Although, I will like those smoked turkey legs at the GUILD meetings. I do like Count Skyrunner, the Earl of Skyharbor.

Methinks ye olde Ty Webb hast been imbibing in the grog again!

PIPE (of Locksly)

 

[VABB]

You are absolutely right. It is the only way we will ever get any leverage.

It'll never happen, but a nation-wide contract/seniority list is the only way. Pilots are too parochial and too self-serving to set aside any short-term personal gain for anything; even if it would tremendously benefit the career field and them personally in the long-term. Pilots are their own worst enemy.

Not as long as there are places willing to offer jobs at no pay and pilots willing to take them.

 

[VABB]

It's a Guild, not a union. Think American Medical Association, or the Bar Association. Really more of a gatekeeper than a union. Everyone presently flying would be grandfathered in, as long as they only flew for guild pay or above.

How many surgical residents pay their patients to operate on them?

How many lawyers work for practically nothing solely because it is "just so cool" to be in a courtroom?

How many discount hospitals do you see out there with doctors willing to work for practically nothing?

Doctors and lawyers are professionals and they know it, unlike many in this profession. You don't see too many lawyers willing to sleep on pieces of plywood and packing a week's worth of granola bars because their employers are too cheap to pay them and they are all too happy to work for them.

The guild is just a dream, and a very wet one at that.

 

[Green]

UAL guys did get screwed but to be more accurate, $135 dollars at UAL equals at least $156 at Frontier if you consider the B and C plan. A lot more if you dig deeper into benefits. $156 is good though. Good luck to you guys.

$156 is not good....$198 to captain a 737 at SWA is good and that is what we should all be shooting for. Sure $156 is better than some but we have to be careful not to buy into this management b^llsh#t that things have changed forever blah blah blah.....Funny thing is that airlines are starting to make record profits but oh no we can't afford to pay a decent wage. BS....

 

[Mach92]

Why would any Frontier pilot give up money period? Did I miss something? Is F9 in that bad of shape? Tell management to PISS OFF!

 

[Lowpayisgreat]

here's whats going on

First year pay cut to 30 an hour
years 4-10 will have a 2 year pay freeze
we gain more 401K (less years to get vested)
they get the two year freeze to help pay for Lynxx
The pilot group is paying for Lynxx so as secure the future
Jeff Potter sent out a letter one week ago, and the last line sais it all. We need Lynxx to survive in the current market. Once agian the fear factor is alive at f9 and everyone is will to cut their pay. Say hell know and lets see potter sell some of his 195000 stock options to help pay for it. FAPA GOOD LUCK BOYS, YOU SHOUD HAVE GOTTEN AN EDUCATION SO YOU COULDN'T BE BULL********************TED

 

[AA717driver]

...smoked turkey legs...

Are we talking about NASCAR?

On topic: Until you get rid of the RLA, the guild idea is out the window. Actually, until you get rid of the RLA, this career is down the $h!tter. TC

 

[JP4user]

Are we talking about NASCAR?

On topic: Until you get rid of the RLA, the guild idea is out the window. Actually, until you get rid of the RLA, this career is down the $h!tter. TC

No truer words have ever been spoken. The silence of ALPA about this is deafening. Duane wouldn't want to rock the boat though and get left out of all those luncheons and other brown nosing events on Capital hill.

Rez..before you chime in, I backed the pac for years.

 

[Draginass]

the guild idea is impractical. Won't work and would be challenged legally anyway. A guild would have to have force of law behind it to work and that's not going to happen. I'd be sort of like the mafia controlling the garbage business in NYC.

You're worth what you willing to show up to work for. If that's $30 an hour, then that's what you're worth. If that's not enough, tell 'em to pound sand and walk. If you want to be able to make a lot of money, go into management where graft, corruption and cronism are the new ethical standards of American business.

 

[fngswa]

lynxx??

What is lynxx??

 

[Dizel8]

What is lynxx??

Not that I know much, but from what I read, it is going to be a subsidiary of Frontier, operating Dash-8s and I believe, maybe smaller jet a/c's.

 

[Scrapdog]

It's a Guild, not a union. Think American Medical Association, or the Bar Association. Really more of a gatekeeper than a union. Everyone presently flying would be grandfathered in, as long as they only flew for guild pay or above.

Also, it's a lot different trying to replace the 80,000 (?) pilots than the controllers. Military pilots couldn't even man one small airline, and without an airline pilot with them, they'd never get off of the Ramp (heh-heh! Just kidding!).

Why would they need pilots? In todays airliners with all the automation we could train chimps to push the "autopilot on" button and throw the gear handle up. And the beauty is - all you have to do is pay them in bananas. I think there are several million chimps in this world - but don't quote me there. That could probably sustain all the airlines you want. What skills do you need? LOL Oh, my bad...the chimps wouldn't be as good as humans at filling out crosswords on transcons, that's where the humans have the upper edge.

If 20 year olds are flying RJ's with no turbine time and about 300 hours of multi at the regionals at 20 dollars an hour - surely the skill set is not that complex.

Chimps for all my friends!

 

[Green]

Scrapdog,


How old do you have to be to fly an F-16? How much total time do you need before they'll throw you in the cockpit?

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Nationwide seniority list and pay, come on now-- why don't we just have one airline and let the government run it then? Geez, the ideas that come up in this forum are just ridiculous sometimes...

 

[Scrapdog]

Scrapdog,


How old do you have to be to fly an F-16? How much total time do you need before they'll throw you in the cockpit?

To get into a fighter cockpit (Eagle, Viper, Hog) and you're just starting the B course and are a second lieutenant - i.e. the earliest possible scenario...I would imagine the average age is about 24 to 25. That's considering you graduated from college at 22, spent about a year to year and a half in military pilot training, and another six months going through Introduction to Fighter Fundamentals as well as knocking out all the other class requirements (SERE and Water Survival to name two of the top of my head). Before ever hopping in a 2 seat model of the F-15 or F-16 for a guy's first flight (obviously not a 2 seater in the A-10) the average guy has about 250 hours or so of high performance jet time in the T-37/T-6 and the T-38 with an additional 30 to 40 high performance hours in the AT-38 during the Intro to fighter fundamentals. During that time the student has already taken about 10 checkrides ranging from an instrument checkride to an tactical formation checkride - as well as any civilian time the kind has built up before even starting military pilot training through the government sponsored initial flying program in a bug smasher. Overall I'd say he's recieved some pretty high quality jet time with most of it focused on tactical flying to prep him for fighters, which is much more intense than flying from point A to B with vectors to the ILS on the full stop.

 

[pipe]

To get into a fighter cockpit (Eagle, Viper, Hog) and you're just starting the B course and are a second lieutenant - i.e. the earliest possible scenario...I would imagine the average age is about 24 to 25. That's considering you graduated from college at 22, spent about a year to year and a half in military pilot training, and another six months going through Introduction to Fighter Fundamentals as well as knocking out all the other class requirements (SERE and Water Survival to name two of the top of my head). Before ever hopping in a 2 seat model of the F-15 or F-16 for a guy's first flight (obviously not a 2 seater in the A-10) the average guy has about 250 hours or so of high performance jet time in the T-37/T-6 and the T-38 with an additional 30 to 40 high performance hours in the AT-38 during the Intro to fighter fundamentals. During that time the student has already taken about 10 checkrides ranging from an instrument checkride to an tactical formation checkride - as well as any civilian time the kind has built up before even starting military pilot training through the government sponsored initial flying program in a bug smasher. Overall I'd say he's recieved some pretty high quality jet time with most of it focused on tactical flying to prep him for fighters, which is much more intense than flying from point A to B with vectors to the ILS on the full stop.

Just let it go man.

Your post is all factual until the last sentence. Then it winds up at your opinion. Amazingly, your opinion falls toward the way you did it.

Guess what? I trained civ, had several thousand hours, then trained mil. One ain't any better than the other. You know why?

BOTH ARE WHAT YOU MAKE OF THEM!

Pipe