Frontier Asked for 20% Cut?

[Beechnut]

Heard through the grapevine.... F.O's on jumpseat who's CA had previous jumpseater who said... blah blah blah...

...who said Frontier wants a 20% paycut from their pilots and also wants to greatly reduce the first year pay.

Anyone know of this?

S.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

O crap. A new low benchmark for the majors to aim for.

 

[climb2slow]

not true

at least not yet....from what we are told.

 

[yaks]

They asked for a pay cut and newhire pay will go down with the new contract. I don't believe it was 20 percent however and the neg. comm. is not giving on the pay (other than newhire).

 

[filejw]

This is why a nation wide contract is need !Flying a 320 /319 everybody pays the same rate period. It's the only way to get some leverage /control.If United pays say 135$ and Frontier is paying 155$ how long did anybody think it would take for Fronter management to ask for some type of parity.

 

[humuakalaka]

This is why a nation wide contract is need !Flying a 320 /319 everybody pays the same rate period. It's the only way to get some leverage /control.If United pays say 135$ and Frontier is paying 155$ how long did anybody think it would take for Fronter management to ask for some type of parity.

You are absolutely right. It is the only way we will ever get any leverage.

It'll never happen, but a nation-wide contract/seniority list is the only way. Pilots are too parochial and too self-serving to set aside any short-term personal gain for anything; even if it would tremendously benefit the career field and them personally in the long-term. Pilots are their own worst enemy.

 

[filejw]

Hum, All I'm talking about is a contract, seniority is a different issue . One thing at a time.We need to make all managers compete on their own merit and not off our backs.

 

[conman]

If United pays say 135$ and Frontier is paying 155$


A couple of comments:

1. There is not a pilot at Frontier making $155 per hour.

2. Why no mention of SW. We all know a 737 CA makes alot more than a Frontier or United equivalent.

 

[Big Duke Six]

A couple of comments:

1. There is not a pilot at Frontier making $155 per hour.

You're right, it's $156.28 for a 12 year CA.

What that says is that unfortunately, the UAL guys really got screwed. I don't think $135 is enough for a 320 CA.

My 2 cents.

 

[conman]

You're right, it's $156.28 for a 12 year CA.


How many 12 year Captain's fly for Frontier???? My guess there are only a few. If you reduce their hourly rate to $135 that still won't save Frontier from the $190 per hour SW CA gauntlet. Good luck to the Frontier folks.

 

[Caveman]

So, what's up? Is this just a rumor or is Frontier management really asking pilots for concessions? I hope not. You guys are the benchmark for domestic A320/A319/A318 pay in the U.S. The rest of us should be moving in your direction, not the other way around.

 

[skykid]

filejw, how long would it take for parity? About as long as it took for the United guys to have to drop to match Frontier's lousy pay. Where does it end.

 

[filejw]

That's the point, if we had a national contract every body would be paid the same.And i think we all want United to come up and not Frontier come down.How long would it take? Have to ask the ALPA politicians and lawyers.

 

[Ty Webb]

I have been saying on this board for the past five or six years that we need a Guild. The guild sets the minimum pay for each piece of equipment.

Your individual union can negotiate something better, but never less than the minimum set by the Guild.


.

 

[Benhuntn]

Guild? is that another term for communism? Give me the free market baby!!!!

We had a regulated industry...now it is market based, let's keep it that way.

 

[Fins Up]

Guild? is that another term for communism? Give me the free market baby!!!!

We had a regulated industry...now it is market based, let's keep it that way.

Communism. That's the word that came to my mind too.

I can see the appeal of a minimum guaranteed salary but what separates us from a lot of other industries in the country/world? Shouldn't secretaries, lawyers and engineers all get the same salaries based on years of service also? It just ain't gonna happen.

 

[D-Bo]

You're right, it's $156.28 for a 12 year CA.

What that says is that unfortunately, the UAL guys really got screwed. I don't think $135 is enough for a 320 CA.

My 2 cents.

UAL guys did get screwed but to be more accurate, $135 dollars at UAL equals at least $156 at Frontier if you consider the B and C plan. A lot more if you dig deeper into benefits. $156 is good though. Good luck to you guys.

 

[socony_air]

I like the Guild idea. But if you want to call it Communism - then let's really take the shackles off of our system. Comparing us to other professions isn't as simple as it sounds. Give me the ability to job hop & earn the salary my qualifications deem appropriate without starting over at the bottom & I'd be all over the Free Market bandwagon. Unfortunately for pilots we are not truly part of the free market labor pool. We are hamstrung by the senority system & cannot force management to pay us commensurate with our skills without the threat of finding a more attractive offer & making a lateral move.

Guild, Brand Scope, One list..... How to affect real change is the issue. It's a massive problem in need of inspired Leadership.

someone..... anyone..... Bueller. Bueller.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

A national union just means that no one will ever be allowed to strike. Funny, kinda like now but on a HUGE scale. Look at the controllers back with Reagan. Once the government realizes that air travel is a strategic asset that must be maintained at all costs, pilots are screwed. Today's controllers had a contract imposed on them and we pilots would fare the same.

 

[Ty Webb]

A national union just means that no one will ever be allowed to strike. Funny, kinda like now but on a HUGE scale. Look at the controllers back with Reagan. Once the government realizes that air travel is a strategic asset that must be maintained at all costs, pilots are screwed. Today's controllers had a contract imposed on them and we pilots would fare the same.

It's a Guild, not a union. Think American Medical Association, or the Bar Association. Really more of a gatekeeper than a union. Everyone presently flying would be grandfathered in, as long as they only flew for guild pay or above.

Also, it's a lot different trying to replace the 80,000 (?) pilots than the controllers. Military pilots couldn't even man one small airline, and without an airline pilot with them, they'd never get off of the Ramp (heh-heh! Just kidding!).

 

[Bavarian Chef]

It's a Guild, not a union. Think American Medical Association, or the Bar Association. Really more of a gatekeeper than a union. Everyone presently flying would be grandfathered in, as long as they only flew for guild pay or above.

Also, it's a lot different trying to replace the 80,000 (?) pilots than the controllers. Military pilots couldn't even man one small airline, and without an airline pilot with them, they'd never get off of the Ramp (heh-heh! Just kidding!).

Yeah, it is really hard to find pilots who are willing to work.

A guild? Have you been hanging out at Rennaissance fairs again?

 

[seefive]

This thread is ridiculous.

 

[dojetdriver]

If, and it's a big if, it's true, probably just typical Union-Company negotiating tactics.

Conmpany wants 20%, Union will only want to give 10%. Company wants these work rules lifted, Union wants this in exchange. When all is said and done, they will settle somewhere in the middle. Just like everybody else.

 

[Skyrunner]

A guild?

Yeah, it is really hard to find pilots who are willing to work.

A guild? Have you been hanging out at Rennaissance fairs again?

Can I be Sir Skyrunner? Although, I will like those smoked turkey legs at the GUILD meetings. I do like Count Skyrunner, the Earl of Skyharbor.

 

[pipe]

Can I be Sir Skyrunner? Although, I will like those smoked turkey legs at the GUILD meetings. I do like Count Skyrunner, the Earl of Skyharbor.

Methinks ye olde Ty Webb hast been imbibing in the grog again!

PIPE (of Locksly)

 

[VABB]

You are absolutely right. It is the only way we will ever get any leverage.

It'll never happen, but a nation-wide contract/seniority list is the only way. Pilots are too parochial and too self-serving to set aside any short-term personal gain for anything; even if it would tremendously benefit the career field and them personally in the long-term. Pilots are their own worst enemy.

Not as long as there are places willing to offer jobs at no pay and pilots willing to take them.

 

[VABB]

It's a Guild, not a union. Think American Medical Association, or the Bar Association. Really more of a gatekeeper than a union. Everyone presently flying would be grandfathered in, as long as they only flew for guild pay or above.

How many surgical residents pay their patients to operate on them?

How many lawyers work for practically nothing solely because it is "just so cool" to be in a courtroom?

How many discount hospitals do you see out there with doctors willing to work for practically nothing?

Doctors and lawyers are professionals and they know it, unlike many in this profession. You don't see too many lawyers willing to sleep on pieces of plywood and packing a week's worth of granola bars because their employers are too cheap to pay them and they are all too happy to work for them.

The guild is just a dream, and a very wet one at that.

 

[Green]

UAL guys did get screwed but to be more accurate, $135 dollars at UAL equals at least $156 at Frontier if you consider the B and C plan. A lot more if you dig deeper into benefits. $156 is good though. Good luck to you guys.

$156 is not good....$198 to captain a 737 at SWA is good and that is what we should all be shooting for. Sure $156 is better than some but we have to be careful not to buy into this management b^llsh#t that things have changed forever blah blah blah.....Funny thing is that airlines are starting to make record profits but oh no we can't afford to pay a decent wage. BS....

 

[Mach92]

Why would any Frontier pilot give up money period? Did I miss something? Is F9 in that bad of shape? Tell management to PISS OFF!

 

[Lowpayisgreat]

here's whats going on

First year pay cut to 30 an hour
years 4-10 will have a 2 year pay freeze
we gain more 401K (less years to get vested)
they get the two year freeze to help pay for Lynxx
The pilot group is paying for Lynxx so as secure the future
Jeff Potter sent out a letter one week ago, and the last line sais it all. We need Lynxx to survive in the current market. Once agian the fear factor is alive at f9 and everyone is will to cut their pay. Say hell know and lets see potter sell some of his 195000 stock options to help pay for it. FAPA GOOD LUCK BOYS, YOU SHOUD HAVE GOTTEN AN EDUCATION SO YOU COULDN'T BE BULL********************TED