From the NWA MEC to their constituents

[On Your Six]

If this is the case, then why wouldn't DAL agree to a different ratio? Nice logic...

DOH doesn't work because 2500 Delta Captains retired. Get it? We are talking apples to oranges. DAL pilots did not appear to benefit (beyond the equity boost that all would have received) in terms of salary boost, QOL improvements, etc. as their NWA counterparts would have in the original offer. Plus, the NWA guys would keep their pensions. And yet that wasn't good enough for the NWA side due to their unrealistic bent on pre 9-11 career expectations. Sounds a bit greedy to me.

 

[TWA Dude]

It's so much fun reading about another pair of pilot groups bickering about who's entitled to what. At least I'm gratified to see neither side is claiming "DOH is the only right way".

 

[DTW320]

DOH doesn't work because 2500 Delta Captains retired. Get it? We are talking apples to oranges. DAL pilots did not appear to benefit (beyond the equity boost that all would have received) in terms of salary boost, QOL improvements, etc. as their NWA counterparts would have in the original offer. Plus, the NWA guys would keep their pensions. And yet that wasn't good enough for the NWA side due to their unrealistic bent on pre 9-11 career expectations. Sounds a bit greedy to me.

Get a Clue man. DOH was NEVER the NWAALPA position. The whole attrition/retirement issue was settled. Came down to SLI. NWAALPA offered a straight % ratio. Ratio = @ 1.4. DALPA wanted about 1.6. Guess what. That puts a huge chunk of NWA pilots on the bottom. Funny how that became their position as soon as RA took the previously agreed to Furlough Protections off the table. In a straight % ratio DAL pilots lose nothing. With their ratio NWA pilots lose huge. Seems pretty clear why DALPA is scared silly of arbitration....despite the drivel you read here about how NWA will get creamed in arbitration. IF that is true, ask yourself why they won't go there.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Get a Clue man. DOH was NEVER the NWAALPA position. The whole attrition/retirement issue was settled. Came down to SLI. NWAALPA offered a straight % ratio. Ratio = @ 1.4. DALPA wanted about 1.6. Guess what. That puts a huge chunk of NWA pilots on the bottom. Funny how that became their position as soon as RA took the previously agreed to Furlough Protections off the table. In a straight % ratio DAL pilots lose nothing. With their ratio NWA pilots lose huge. Seems pretty clear why DALPA is scared silly of arbitration....despite the drivel you read here about how NWA will get creamed in arbitration. IF that is true, ask yourself why they won't go there.

DTW that is not how I heard it. (not saying your wrong) I heard the NWA pilots wanted slotted seniority or "dynamic seniority" but lacked the computer model to run the numbers. They had the DAL guys run the model for them and used a different ratio to adjust for the "dynamic" progression. When the NWA pilots saw the numbers the result was not what they had anticipated. They, then balked at their own suggested fix and wanted to return to their previous position. The Delta pilots had thought they might have a deal, but the NWA pilots reneged from their own offer.

Again, that could be wrong, but the timing with other facts that I know lends credibility to this report.

You are right that the result of the ratio with the dynamic seniority was pretty ugly for the NWA pilots. But, it would have left everyone in equipment by relative seniority, which is logical.

 

[On Your Six]

Get a Clue man. DOH was NEVER the NWAALPA position. The whole attrition/retirement issue was settled. Came down to SLI. NWAALPA offered a straight % ratio. Ratio = @ 1.4. DALPA wanted about 1.6. Guess what. That puts a huge chunk of NWA pilots on the bottom. Funny how that became their position as soon as RA took the previously agreed to Furlough Protections off the table. In a straight % ratio DAL pilots lose nothing. With their ratio NWA pilots lose huge. Seems pretty clear why DALPA is scared silly of arbitration....despite the drivel you read here about how NWA will get creamed in arbitration. IF that is true, ask yourself why they won't go there.

Lose huge? Are you serious? Let's see, in the original proposed agreement NWA pilots get a nice raise, they get QOL enhancements, they get more commutable bases for many, they get to KEEP THEIR PENSIONS, they get a chunk of equity, they get more opportunities to fly widebodies (evidently not "premium widebodies"), they get (as members of the combined carrier) to be a part of one of the strongest airlines in the world resulting in better job security (in the long run) and on and on. Sounds pretty good to me considering the alternative: status quo in a world with wildly-fluctuating oil prices and economic uncertainty where cost-cutting is the norm. Everyone loses in that case.

Your distorted view of "losing huge" is the problem. This deal was going to be beneficial to both sides but remember, no merger is perfect. There will always be some bad feelings but the NWA side seemed to nuke the process early on. I agree that Steeland is probably upset as a result of his missed merger-related bonus. Now watch the result as you may see aircraft fleet reductions or even a forced merger that could have been more favorable had the two sides actually worked together on a realistic plan - not one based on distorted, pre 9-11 career expectations.

Your view of "losing huge" is the problem because you take that view out of the current context: the airline industry is sick and the medicine might be worse than the cure. With regard to potential arbitration, we all know what happened with USAirways/AWA and the extreme discontent that created - that ain't gonna fly.

 

[nwaredtail]

Lose huge? Are you serious? Let's see, in the original proposed agreement NWA pilots get a nice raise, they get QOL enhancements, they get more commutable bases for many, they get to KEEP THEIR PENSIONS, they get a chunk of equity, they get more opportunities to fly widebodies (evidently not "premium widebodies"), they get (as members of the combined carrier) to be a part of one of the strongest airlines in the world resulting in better job security (in the long run) and on and on.

All of the "promises", were pulled back at the end of the negotiations. They have no value whatsoever.
sult of his missed merger-related bonus. I love it, get all this contract stuff, but get the honor of being a first officer at DAL for the next 15 years. Sign us up for that.


Now watch the result as you may see aircraft fleet reductions. Like the ones DAL just announced. NWA didn't announce any. Typical!

 

[jke406]

didn't you announce a few weeks back you were parking something like 30 dc-9s without replacing them?

but I guess that doesn't count, when you're orbiting in the Bozosphere.

 

[Diesel-9]

Old news on the -9's. very close to the original fleet plan. the last few years they kept more -9's flying at low utilization rates to slow down a/c going through heavy mx. Sold 30 to a South American Co. Utilization rates to almost double with remaining a/c.

 

[General Lee]

Lose huge? Are you serious? Let's see, in the original proposed agreement NWA pilots get a nice raise, they get QOL enhancements, they get more commutable bases for many, they get to KEEP THEIR PENSIONS, they get a chunk of equity, they get more opportunities to fly widebodies (evidently not "premium widebodies"), they get (as members of the combined carrier) to be a part of one of the strongest airlines in the world resulting in better job security (in the long run) and on and on.

All of the "promises", were pulled back at the end of the negotiations. They have no value whatsoever.
sult of his missed merger-related bonus. I love it, get all this contract stuff, but get the honor of being a first officer at DAL for the next 15 years. Sign us up for that.


Now watch the result as you may see aircraft fleet reductions. Like the ones DAL just announced. NWA didn't announce any. Typical!

Then why do you guys keep calling? Why? Your MEC must know something. Steenland is probably whispering something in their ears. Have you announced further reductions in aircraft? I read there will be more stated on that subject towards the end of the Summer. If you don't like our offer, then quit calling.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IXLR8]

didn't you announce a few weeks back you were parking something like 30 dc-9s without replacing them?

but I guess that doesn't count, when you're orbiting in the Bozosphere.

Old news...real old....