From the AFS100 Database, Something to think about

[75 Driver]

Fractionals have surpassed the amount of deviations per 1000 hours percentage that was previously held by 135 operations. Six times the rate of all 121 per 1000 flight hours, supplemental included.

The winners:

top of the list Flight Options with 26 active pilot actions pending, most are not in the category eligible for civil penalty mitigation.

Delta Private Jets quickly moving up the list with 23 actions pending.

Netjets right in there with 21

While the focus is on union votes and rules the bottom line is the industry is falling into statistical realities that may have negative consequences.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Fractionals have surpassed the amount of deviations per 1000 hours percentage that was previously held by 135 operations. Six times the rate of all 121 per 1000 flight hours, supplemental included.

The winners:

top of the list Flight Options with 26 active pilot actions pending, most are not in the category eligible for civil penalty mitigation.

Delta Private Jets quickly moving up the list with 23 actions pending.

Netjets right in there with 21

While the focus is on union votes and rules the bottom line is the industry is falling into statistical realities that may have negative consequences.

Sad day for all, but not surprising given the shift in focus in recent years from excellence to cost reduction in all facets of the operation.

 

[993_Pilot]

Fractionals have surpassed the amount of deviations per 1000 hours percentage that was previously held by 135 operations. Six times the rate of all 121 per 1000 flight hours, supplemental included.....While the focus is on union votes and rules the bottom line is the industry is falling into statistical realities that may have negative consequences.

Does this surprise you? Fractional pilots fly to >10x the number of airports that the scheduled legacy 121 carriers do, without licensed dispatcher, often on short notice. We get 2-3 weeks to complete a new type, not 4-6 weeks like the legacy carriers. Now aside from the unfamiliarity, let's add on the daily pressure that these pilots face to get the job done with a pushy Mr 1%er / CEO as their passenger, who is not used to being told "NO", as you want to err on the side of caution, and then you might begin to understand. Next, let's throw in the uncertainty of the schedule where your duty day expectations often change and shift, sometimes several times in a day. It is long past time for the FAA to do more to improve the duty/rest rules for unscheduled 135 flying. I could go on, but I am sure you get the idea. This should give everyone an appreciation for the challenge that the fractional pilots face, day in and day out. Fractional flying isn't the same job as the legacy carriers who fly in and out of the same 30 airports with 10,000' runways on a known schedule.

While it may be true that there has recently been a "focus is on union votes and rules", is it any wonder that the fractional pilots want some of the same protections that the 121 legacy guys have enjoyed for years? Without them I would agree that the fractional "industry is falling into statistical realities that may have negative consequences."

 

[flex*wife]

I don't know what the statistics are for Flexjet since I couldn't find the report but I will assume by the lack of inclusion they fell to the lower end of the list.

In pondering that, along with 993's statement, I have to wonder if that doesn't make this whole Flexjet union debate more important.

Of serious concern to everyone is the cost saving changes to Flexjet's processes despite a best practices promise.

I know even some Flight Options pilots were excited about the potential of having KR see the benefit of best practices versus cost savings at, well, literally any cost.

But it appears with the inclusion of iwog and camps etc... the best practices promise went out the window.

And that just makes the need for a union even more valid. Funny (in an odd way) your life might actually depend on it.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Does this surprise you? Fractional pilots fly to >10x the number of airports that the scheduled legacy 121 carriers do, without licensed dispatcher, often on short notice. We get 2-3 weeks to complete a new type, not 4-6 weeks like the legacy carriers. Now aside from the unfamiliarity, let's add on the daily pressure that these pilots face to get the job done with a pushy Mr 1%er / CEO as their passenger, who is not used to being told "NO", as you want to err on the side of caution, and then you might begin to understand. Next, let's throw in the uncertainty of the schedule where your duty day expectations often change and shift, sometimes several times in a day. It is long past time for the FAA to do more to improve the duty/rest rules for unscheduled 135 flying. I could go on, but I am sure you get the idea. This should give everyone an appreciation for the challenge that the fractional pilots face, day in and day out. Fractional flying isn't the same job as the legacy carriers who fly in and out of the same 30 airports with 10,000' runways on a known schedule.

While it may be true that there has recently been a "focus is on union votes and rules", is it any wonder that the fractional pilots want some of the same protections that the 121 legacy guys have enjoyed for years? Without them I would agree that the fractional "industry is falling into statistical realities that may have negative consequences."

No one is claiming that fractional flying is comparable to 121 flying. The larger point in the original point is that the safety record of the fractionals has deteriorated to the point that it is now on par or worse than part 135.

The fractionals have claimed for years that they were a better and safer option than charter, but the statistics are now showing otherwise.

 

[luckydog]

Does this surprise you? Fractional pilots fly to >10x the number of airports that the scheduled legacy 121 carriers do, without licensed dispatcher, often on short notice. We get 2-3 weeks to complete a new type, not 4-6 weeks like the legacy carriers. Now aside from the unfamiliarity, let's add on the daily pressure that these pilots face to get the job done with a pushy Mr 1%er / CEO as their passenger, who is not used to being told "NO", as you want to err on the side of caution, and then you might begin to understand. Next, let's throw in the uncertainty of the schedule where your duty day expectations often change and shift, sometimes several times in a day. It is long past time for the FAA to do more to improve the duty/rest rules for unscheduled 135 flying. I could go on, but I am sure you get the idea. This should give everyone an appreciation for the challenge that the fractional pilots face, day in and day out. Fractional flying isn't the same job as the legacy carriers who fly in and out of the same 30 airports with 10,000' runways on a known schedule.

993, this sounds like a gigantic lame a$$ excuse for poor execution.

The entire industry can and should be better than this.

 

[doh]

It doesn't surprise me in the least that Options leads the way. The new camp includes a conference call with your cp, a safety officer, and a maintenance supervisor to "help" assess the risk of your write up...read pressure you to fly an unsafe airplane. Look for a spike coming to a Flexjet near you!

 

[75 Driver]

My Point is

Turmoil in the work place and to much union talk in the cockpit can have implications that show up in statistics. Do not become a statistic, fly first then debate the other stuff over a beer. If you are not familiar with this,

https://rudypont.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/fsf-ehancing-flight-path-monitoring.pdf

then I would encourage you to think about browsing thru...and giving a second before every flight to remember some of the thinking that it might provoke.

 

[flex*wife]

Turmoil in the work place and to much union talk in the cockpit can have implications that show up in statistics. Do not become a statistic, fly first then debate the other stuff over a beer. If you are not familiar with this,

https://rudypont.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/fsf-ehancing-flight-path-monitoring.pdf

then I would encourage you to think about browsing thru...and giving a second before every flight to remember some of the thinking that it might provoke.

That's, imho, total bs but I'm not a pilot so I'll defer to your opinion if I must but...

There's no turmoil at FO - they have a contract and Uncle can no longer cause the angst he once did.

There's no union discussion. It's a matter of settled business and if anything everyone over there is pretty happy now that the bottom feeders are gone.

But turmoil and discussion are happening at flex yet they're not on the list so I guess I don't understand your point. I don't think your being anti or pro anything so please don't take my confusion as argument.

Isn't this really a best practices debate? An external audit called Flexjet's software suite, scheduling and dispatch the best they've ever seen but suddenly Flex has been migrated to Flight Options cheaper but less effective CAMPS and IWOGS with fixed schedules soon on the horizon. Rumor is Waterview staff have already been alerted that at least half if not 2/3 of dispatch will go as a result and to boot take on some FO duties in the new everything but the pilot lists merge of OneSky.

Seems to me the issue is about self dispatch and cheaper not better methodology etc... not cockpit discussion. I mean if you really want to get trivial, the beer you suggest might have just as much impact if you think flight cruise discussion does...

But I'm not a pilot. I guess I just see my concern about him coming home safe as a valid one that gives me a right to my opinion.

 

[993_Pilot]

No one is claiming that fractional flying is comparable to 121 flying. The larger point in the original point is that the safety record of the fractionals has deteriorated to the point that it is now on par or worse than part 135.

The fractionals have claimed for years that they were a better and safer option than charter, but the statistics are now showing otherwise.

I guess since the thread was started by a "75 Driver", presumably a 121 pilot, I took it as a bit of a dig, when perhaps I shouldn't have. Or, maybe it was just his assertion that union discussions specifically are the cause of the deviations that made me think of it as BS.

BTW, the original post refers to "deviations", not directly to safety (i.e. accidents or incidents). We could try to draw correlations between deviations and safety, but they are not the same thing. It's hard to say more beyond that without reading the document, and I don't know about you, but I am not familiar with it, nor have I been able to find it. It sure would be nice to see a link to the document that he refers to before any of us jump to conclusions. It probably does exist, but until he produces it for us to read and interpret, quoting a small excerpt from it and asserting that union discussions are the culprit seems a little fishy to me.

993, this sounds like a gigantic lame a$$ excuse for poor execution.

The entire industry can and should be better than this.

A "lame a$$ excuse" is attempting to blame it on union talk in the cockpit without supporting documentation. Most pilots that I have flown with are pretty good about observing the the sterile cockpit rules. However, you are correct that we can and should be better than that, whatever the cause.

Turmoil in the work place and to much union talk in the cockpit can have implications that show up in statistics. Do not become a statistic, fly first then debate the other stuff over a beer. If you are not familiar with this,

https://rudypont.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/fsf-ehancing-flight-path-monitoring.pdf

then I would encourage you to think about browsing thru...and giving a second before every flight to remember some of the thinking that it might provoke.

Show us some verifiable statistics that shows specifically that union discussions have been a significant factor in deviations as you assert. Now I am not saying that no two fractional pilots were ever discussing union stuff when they had a deviation, but I am willing to bet that the subject matter was not relevant to the deviation. So when you come here to the fractional thread and stir up a discussion by asserting that union discussions are seemingly the major culprit in deviations, without any supporting documentation, what you really sound like is someone with an anti-union agenda, attempting to masquerade as a safety advocate.