From the AFS100 Database, Something to think about

[GlorifiedCabbie]

75 Driver, the presentation sounds like something is being done-from the vantage point of "behind a desk". The numbers are not an accurate reflection of fractional flying vs. 135. I don't know the percentage of 135 operators that have an ASAP program, but I'm sure it's less that the fractionals have. The NASA reporting system may better reflect their operations.
And one more thing- I doubt I would be having a beer with another pilot after we just had a deviation.

 

[gunfyter]

Sounds like people are flying Fatigued!

121 has FAR 117 duty limits

 

[gutshotdraw]

Sounds like people are flying Fatigued!

121 has FAR 117 duty limits

Be careful what you wish for there amigo. A lot of our colleagues are pounding the table demanding 117 be applied to our operations without considering the law of unintended consequences.

EVERY 121 pilot I know HATES 117. EVERY 121 pilot I come across and casually ask HATES 117.

It requires more days of work per month to meet minimum bid lines, you need an iphone app to track your duty time because it's so frickin complicated, and they're NOT any better rested.

We need SIMPLE, easy to apply rest requirements in a new contract. NOT more stupid BS from the Fed.

 

[993_Pilot]

Be careful what you wish for there amigo.....We need SIMPLE, easy to apply rest requirements in a new contract. NOT more stupid BS from the Fed.

Can I get an AMEN?

 

[skanza]

It doesn't surprise me in the least that Options leads the way. The new camp includes a conference call with your cp, a safety officer, and a maintenance supervisor to "help" assess the risk of your write up...read pressure you to fly an unsafe airplane. Look for a spike coming to a Flexjet near you!

Wrong, wrong, oh so very very wrong. Not many people are so wrong about wrong things as you are about this.

No one at FO will pressure anyone to fly unsafe. You have no proof - because it doesn't happen.

 

[t-bone]

Be careful what you wish for there amigo. A lot of our colleagues are pounding the table demanding 117 be applied to our operations without considering the law of unintended consequences.

EVERY 121 pilot I know HATES 117. EVERY 121 pilot I come across and casually ask HATES 117.

It requires more days of work per month to meet minimum bid lines, you need an iphone app to track your duty time because it's so frickin complicated, and they're NOT any better rested.

We need SIMPLE, easy to apply rest requirements in a new contract. NOT more stupid BS from the Fed.

They are paid hourly though...

 

[gunfyter]

They are paid hourly though...

Yes ....

I use 117 as my fatigue guideline

 

[gutshotdraw]

It's still horribly complicated and doesn't improve rest at all.

 

[t-bone]

It's still horribly complicated and doesn't improve rest at all.

Agreed. My impression is that 121 guys don't like it because it makes their trips less efficient...more time away from base for the same pay. Haven't heard much grumbling from a fatigue perspective, it's all been financially driven in my limited experience. Something us salaried guys do the to contend with. Sitting in a hotel pays just as mush as flying a trip,

 

[AftCG182]

Agreed. My impression is that 121 guys don't like it because it makes their trips less efficient...more time away from base for the same pay. Haven't heard much grumbling from a fatigue perspective, it's all been financially driven in my limited experience. Something us salaried guys do the to contend with. Sitting in a hotel pays just as mush as flying a trip,

Keep in mind who we're who we're talking about here... It's the "get the most out of them for the least amount of pay" Management mentality versus the "do the least amount of work for the most pay possible" groups.

The true victims are the passengers, whose comfort has been compromised in the interest of "optimizing" cabin size in the interest of efficiency. (Read: Profit)

I'm getting f-ed monthly with a schedule of 15/13 and these guys are whining about 4 days away from home? Cry me a river, bitches...