From Regionals (good ones) to Fractionals

[MoreDaysOff]

Any thoughts on leaving one of the better regionals for a fractional?

In my case I have descent seniority (top 10 percent out of 2500) and just wondering what the future hold for the whole regional business model and what that means to us supposed "lifers."

On the other hand, how's life at the fractionals?

Thanks

 

[SteelerMan]

I made the move from a regional to a fractional and thought it was a much better job, but I wasn't in the top 10 percent like you. As the age 65 disaster is about to happen sometime in the next couple of years, you may get stuck as a fo at the fractional for alot longer than you want which would be my hangup on making the move. Another thing to consider is the lack of schedule flexibility at the frac, most have 7 on 7 off so if you are used to getting all the days you want off, that would be an adjustment. But overall life at the fractional I felt was much, much better than the regional. Pay, hotels, much better. Good luck.

 

[Cavpilot]

Good regional? I believe that is an oxymoron. You have been where you are at so long that you are blinded to how truly sucky they all are.

I made the jump from a regional to NetJets. Apart from marrying my wife, it is the best decision I've ever made.

 

[Floyd94]

I made the move from a regional to a fractional and thought it was a much better job, but I wasn't in the top 10 percent like you. As the age 65 disaster is about to happen sometime in the next couple of years, you may get stuck as a fo at the fractional for alot longer than you want which would be my hangup on making the move. .

What Fractional did you work for?? NetJets has guys in their late 60's working as captains. Part 135 has nothing to do with the impending "age 65 disaster".
Upgrade time would have nothing at all to do with this change at the fractionals.

 

[Guitar Guy]

What Fractional did you work for?? NetJets has guys in their late 60's working as captains. Part 135 has nothing to do with the impending "age 65 disaster".
Upgrade time would have nothing at all to do with this change at the fractionals.

And to add to this line of thought, if the Part 121 age limit jumps up to 65, that may put some squeeze on the new-hire pool for NJA. We get a decent amount of 121 retirees so if the age limit goes up in the 121 realm, NJA may have a little more difficult time finding pilots.

 

[VVJM265]

And to add to this line of thought, if the Part 121 age limit jumps up to 65, that may put some squeeze on the new-hire pool for NJA. We get a decent amount of 121 retirees so if the age limit goes up in the 121 realm, NJA may have a little more difficult time finding pilots.

Hadn't thought about that.

 

[VVJM265]

Duplicate post

 

[Ultra Grump]

I've got to wonder also whether a change to age-65 would cause some furloughees to decide to exercise their recall rights since they'd get an extra 5 years at their major. Could lead to some movement at NJA.

 

[blueridge71]

I went from ASA to CS. It was definitely a good move.

Even being a senior captain at a regional, you could probably replace your income quickly at a fractional. 7-year captain pay at ASA is roughly equivalent to 2-year captain pay at CS. Your big question is how long upgrades will take. Things seem to be stabilizing at CS now. I've heard the same at NJ.

I'd say that Age-65 will be good for younger fractional pilots. If anything, it means that fewer retirees will be competing for fractional jobs.

Regionals are inherently unstable, but in the top 10% you should be fairly furlough-proof unless the whole company goes under.

From your position, I probably wouldn't move unless you just want to get away from your company. You would lose your pay, at least for a while. Your days off would probably be about the same.

Two good things about moving are that if you are currently commuting, you could be home based. Second, you could get typed in a business jet and look for something in the corporate world.

 

[MoreDaysOff]

Thanks for the info, keep them coming.

 

[Freight Dog]

Bear in mind the paycheck... NJA has pretty good payscales for captains. For SIC's, the probationary pay may be OK especially if you live in the Midwest, but you won't see much more than that until you upgrade. How long is the upgrade running these days? What's it forecast for down the road? I keep hearing 4-6 years for guys hired today. I hope I'm wrong.

Maybe one of the first year guys could put down how much you take home as an NJA FO. That'll be about what you'll make for those 4-6 years until you upgrade. That's something you may want to keep in mind as well.

From what I can tell, the FO pay is the one and only bad thing for me with respect to NJA since I live in one of their gateways and HBA is not an issue for me.

 

[Ultra Grump]

There's also been some talk of fixing the FO payscales in IBB. I'm not saying it'll happen, but there is some talk about it.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Good ones?

Not meaning to sound critical.

When I was hired here, one of my favorite parts of the job was airlining... regional or mainline.

Now it's the part I dread the most.

Give me a private terminal with a view, free hot coffee, plasma screen tv's, wireless internet, courtesy cars (Jaguars), hot counter staff (reow) and peace anyday over...

well...

LGA.

Nuff said.

 

[theskyking]

I came from a decent regional, Skywest, to Netjets. Best move I ever made.

I work harder at NJ than I did at Skywest, but the job is more enjoyable. And like others have said, the worst part of the job is riding on the airlines. I think that says a lot in itself.

I would caution anyone coming here to educate themselves as to what the job entails. Very different from the 121 stuff so leave your baggage at the door when you get here. Also, come in with a very conservative estimate for upgrade. Make sure you can do SIC pay for a while, maybe 5+ years.

One last telling bit of info. I was in the FBO at MDW yesterday while chatting with another NJ guy. Turns out he was ex military and retired United after 30+ years. He said he thinks NJ is the best job out there.

 

[learflyer]

Not meaning to sound critical.

When I was hired here, one of my favorite parts of the job was airlining... regional or mainline.

Now it's the part I dread the most.

Give me a private terminal with a view, free hot coffee, plasma screen tv's, wireless internet, courtesy cars (Jaguars), hot counter staff (reow) and peace anyday over...

well...

LGA.

Nuff said.

who has the jags?

 

[jtf]

MillionAir fbo's have Jaguar crew cars. They also have movie theater rooms and many have work out facilities and showers. Tampa Jet Center also has a Jaguar, a Hummer, and a BMW for courtesy cars. Falcon Trust at Tamiami is the best out there. They may not have the great crew cars, but check that place out for everything else.

As far as FO pay at NJA- it is much better than the pay scales show. Most fleets will have at least 50 hours of OT (probably closer to 100) for between $27 and $31 per hour (first year depending on 7 and 7 or 18 day schedule). You will average about 5 (out of 10) days at about $320 or so for holiday pay. You will be able to extend at the same rate every once in a while. You will have better insurance than any regional. You will get a 50 percent match on your 401k contribution. If you are on the Excel and XLS you will make another $225 a month for differences pay. You will be provided crew food while you work and bank almost all of your perdiem. You will also bank about 2 free weeks of hotel stays a year (in good hotels). First year it is better than almost all flying jobs. Second year and beyond the FO rates barely move and the next contract will have to do something about that if they want to hire good pilots since the company can only grow so fast and it will take some time to upgrade.

 

[G200_PILOT]

As far as upgrade times go... we hear different numbers every week but the number we hear the most is 3-5 years. Yup, it's a long time but keep in mind that all wages except for the BBJ are "years of service" not years in seat. If you're an FO for three years and get a PIC bid, you jump to 3rd or 4th year captains pay.

 

[MoreDaysOff]

Thanks again for these updates.

Can someone explaing schedules. 7 on and 7 off or whatever. How are those "7 on" days? What's the job like. Also, is it all 7 on and 7 off? Any variations there?

What about reserve. How do the work rules work?

Thanks again.

 

[CA1900]

Can someone explaing schedules. 7 on and 7 off or whatever. How are those "7 on" days? What's the job like. Also, is it all 7 on and 7 off? Any variations there?

I can only speak for Netjets, but we have two options: the 7-on/7-off schedule, or the "reserve" schedule. "Reserve" is a misnomer -- you're not on-call in any way, shape, or form, as you would be on airline reserve. On our reserve schedule, you work 18 days a month instead of 7-on, and those 18 days are what can change, aside from 4 hard days off (four in a row, or two pairs) that you bid for.

On reserve, you'll know by 6pm on a day off whether you're working the next day or not, and if so, what time you'll report. It won't change. If you show up and the trip disappears, it's still a work day, and per the contract, they'll buy you a hotel at your base if they end up deciding not to use you on an assigned workday.

And if they don't have anything for you, that's it -- it's a day off. They won't call you.


As for how the days themselves are, they vary wildly. First day of my tour, I spent it by the pool at a Hilton in Ft. Lauderdale because the trip disappeared. A couple days were just two-leggers with some FBO time, a couple were 4-leg and 5-leg days, and a little bit of FBO standby here and there. While sitting standby at Signature in Denver the other day, a few of us killed time with the pool table in the pilot lounge. Very nice! :beer:


There are long days, too: My travel home last night lasted 'til 1am because my airline flight ran several hours late. (That after-midnight arrival on my last day netted me about an extra $700 in overtime/extra-day payments because they didn't get me home by midnight.) Some tours are harder than others; you'll definitely need to be flexible. But it's a good job overall, no question about that.

 

[blueridge71]

CS is all 7 and 7. There is no reserve.

I've flown anywhere from 15 to 40 hours on a tour. On my airplane, it is not uncommon to have at least one day per tour without flying. A couple of tours ago, I only flew three out of eight days (I picked up an OT day).

OT days are paid based on seat and years of service. First year FO OT is $330 per day. First year FO salary is $40,000. We also get paid OT if we don't get home on day 7, but 3 am is our cutoff.