From Airline to Frax - How's Transition?

[Diesel]

I think i've been to that one in AL. There is also one in TX. I was talking to the owners and they called NJA and said what spec's need to be built for me to land a plane on it.

NJA gave him the specs for weight and size and he had it built. He also is having a GPS aproach made for it too. Very cool airport. It just happens to be the guy owns it.

I've seen both a 2000 and an ultra in there.

 

[FracPilot]

Very nice, about 6000' runway. If you can't eyeball that, there is a problem.

So what happens if the feds decide to question you regarding your landing, and perhaps takeoff, requirements? If you say you needed 5,000ft, and they ask you how you know you had enough...do you say you just thought there was plenty by the way it looked?

How do you know the load bearing capacity of the runway by eyeballing it? Just because somebody tells you the "specs" on the runway doesn't mean that they are correct. I would want such info from a government source or a freelance source experienced in such matters...such as the builder of the runway. Of course, in many airplanes operated by the frax load bearing capacity will not really be a concern - but it does often come into play in the larger airplanes. Want to send a FA2000 into a runway that is only stressed for 20,000lbs? Landing weight is well over that.

NetJets will not tolerate it nor would I!!!!!!!!

I didn't say that either would tolerate it....but have you flown with everybody at NJA to be able to say that everybody follows SOPs to the tee, every flight? I know I can't say it about my company, or even my fleet. I can say that it is not acceptable to disregard the SOPs, but I can't say everybody follows them.

I hope you're not getting as wound up over this issue as it appears by your posts. Getting stressed over a message board is kinda stupid, if you know what I mean.

 

[Heavy Set]

I appreciate the responses thusfar.

Again, I am interested in hearing what the transition has been like for former regional and mainline pilots into the fractional world.

Specifically, I'd like to hear about how you view fractional "flying" vs. airline flying - do you like it better or worse and why?. Also, how do you like the equipment you are on vs. what you LAST flew at the airlines?

I appreciate your answers and any examples you can discuss.


Thanks

 

[Duke of Ale]

Heavy Set:
I came from over 34 years of airline flying and retired off a B-767 flying International to Netjets. The transition was very tough for me. A lot to do every leg and I would almost always forget one thing. The pay really sucks. When I hired on, I use to make more flying one leg to Rome than I did in a whole month here. The new aircraft are nice but tiny cockpits are so small, you can't even put your catered food on your lap to eat. (notice I didn't say box lunch, the food is GREAT!) You get to go to a lot of places that you didn't see at the airlines but most of the guys I fly with are afraid to go more than 200 yards from the hotel, so what difference does it make? I venture out. My first year here was like the longest year of my life but when I finally got the hang of it, it all got better. Still not great but better. Any other Q's you can e-mail me.

 

[750driver]

HS,

Most of the previous posts have outlined the pros & cons for you. For me the pros were as follows:

1. - No commuting / jumpseating worries.
2. - Excellent hotels.
3. - Excellent ground transportation (limos at times).
4. - First rate aircraft & avionics.
5. - Destination variety (this can be a double-edged sword).
6. - Quality crew meals.
7. - Excellent aircraft training & facilities.

The cons:

1. - Longer trip pairings (7-9 days in a row, but greater days off).
2. - Frequent 14hr. duty days.
3. - Frequent last minute trip changes.
4. - Pilots clean & restock aircraft after each flight (if required).
5. - Pilots load baggage, and deal with catering issues.
6. - Frequent non-precision / circling approaches.
7. - Down time between flights can be long at times.

These are just personal opinions, and not meant to persuade Heavy Set in either direction. The intention is merely to inform. Best wishes,

ex-750Driver

 

[English]

Former regional airline captain here, now regional fractional captain on a Citationjet. I don't work for one of the big four fractionals, but rather for a small "regional" fractional where all the owners live in the same geographical region.

"We all know that you take a big economic hit (at least initially) - so let's EXCLUDE pay from this discussion." posted by Heavy Set

My first comment...although Heavy Set wanted to exclude pay from the discussion, I'd like to counter his/her statement. I took a pay increase (almost double) going from Saab captain to Citationjet captain. The benefits are substantially better as well. It seems regional fractional pilots are paid better than the fractional pilots at the big four. Of course, aircraft size plays a part, but at least on the littlest jet it has worked out that way. If you are coming from a major then yes, you are likely taking a pay cut.

The type of flying I do now is very similar to regional airline-type flying on some days, and major airline flying on others. Most trips are day trips, starting in SoCal and going to PHX, LAS, SAC, SFO, SAN, etc. Fly somewhere, wait a few hours and fly back. Instead of having 45 minutes between turns with no time to eat other than fast food, there is time to venture away from the airport and try the local restaurants. Other trips we've been getting lately involve overnights with a little distance. We've gone to several ski destinations and I always pack for a day on the slopes. I never had time at the regional airline to fully enjoy the overnights. We'd go to some great destinations but with a reduced rest overnight sometimes you just can't get out to see the place or partake in outdoor activities. I like the fractional flying better than the regional flying because there is more variety available.

Now, at first I really missed having a schedule set in stone the month before, and there was an adjustment period. But I've found ways to maximize my time off so that I mostly have off the same days as my spouse (also a regional airline captain). So, in this respect, my personal life has improved because we aren't dealing with two different people's bids trying to line up.

The aircraft I fly now has better equipment to some extent. The CJ has an FMS whereas the Saab didn't. But I miss not having GPWS and ACARS. All in all, it was fun flying the Saab but it's good to fly something with some performance. I'm not always down low flying around in the bumps, and I'm not being passed by Brasillias anymore.

I've noticed lots of comments about a negative being the loading of bags, dealing with passengers, etc. I don't deal with a lot of luggage. On the rare occasion that there is a lot of luggage, I just tip the ramp guys to handle it. I've never had a difficult passenger either. I've had some really interesting conversations with many of them, and learned alot about many things I just wouldn't be exposed to otherwise. At least at my job, dealing with passengers is an enjoyable part of the day.

The big negative, if you've become accustomed to them, is losing the flight benefits and jumpseat privileges. Just marry someone in the airlines and that'll be taken care of

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

I came from a regional to Flight Options. Not furloughed, it was my decision. I was a new captain on reserve, 11 scheduled days off. I came over here and got 14 days off per month, minimum. That was a nice change.

I like the fractional flying more because of the variety of destinations. You can only overnight in RDU so many times before you get sick of it. At my former regional, I was based in EWR on reserve and we didn't fly to the west coast (yet). Now it's just the opposite, I never see EWR (thank God) and I'm on the west coast all the time. Flying into Teterboro isn't much fun either, but it beats EWR. We take our airplane into private strips located on our owner's property, go into small island strips in the Bahamas, and still get to visit all the big, busy metro airports around the country. The hub and spoke system can get monotonous. For the variety, I like the frax alot more.

I flew the Jungle Jet prior to this. It was a good airplane for the most part. Had it's computer glitches every once in a while, but you learned to reset everything and they would go away. I fly a Beechjet now, and it's pretty straightforward. Easy systems, easy to fly, easy to land. It doesn't have the EICAS in the middle of the panel, but looking at round engine dials isn't tough. We have four tubes, GPWS, ground prox, all that jazz. It's a very small cockpit compared the the RJ, but we usually don't fly it for more than 2.5 hours at a time.

With the frax, you will throw bags and you will give safety briefings. Even on your worst days you still have to fake being nice to your pax, even the greedy, needy a$$holes who expect you to do everything for them. That can get tough.

With the frax, usually every other leg is empty. You can have fun with the airplane, listen to music as loud as you want and enjoy flying. Some people even get out of their seats on the long repo legs and watch a movie on the DVD player. But I don't.

Being gone from home for eight days is tough, but you get used to it. Being home for seven days is easy, and it goes by way too fast. Usually by the time the week on the road is done, my wife is ready for me to come home. When my week at home is done, she's ready for me to leave. It works out well.

That's been my experience so far. It's not better or worse than airline flying, just different.

 

[wil]

My buddy who left Air Willy for a frac says- "you can take the guy out of the airline but you can't take the airline out of the guy!" He is miserable there as well as some other airline classmates of his- all the best

 

[Frac Daddy]

wil,

Why is your friend miserable at the frax?

FD

 

[mobs]

Wil, I do not fly for a frac,but have applied to due so and I would think that if one looked at what is required in this type of ops. and that it is much more than walking on turning left and taking a seat they should do fine. I look forward to a chance to do this kind of flying,I will go in with eyes open and ready to learn what the owners expect and give them more. Sorry your friends are not happy with this kind of job. Mobs